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Mark Kerr

Hi there, I've been working on a little midi looper using Seq~. The idea is that the first recording would define a length and this would act as a reference for the following loops that would be of relative length to the first one. 

The first looper seems to be working fine even though I'm not sure this is the most elegant way of doing this. I'm a bit stuck as to how to get a system going though as I've tried couple of things and they didn't work very well.

I'm posting the patch here hoping someone would be interesting suggestions or examples.

Midi Looper x Forum.maxpat

Hi there, I've been working on a little midi looper using Seq~. The idea is that the first recording would define a length and this would act as a reference for the following loops that would be of relative length to the first one. 

The first looper seems to be working fine even though I'm not sure this is the most elegant way of doing this. I'm a bit stuck as to how to get a system going though as I've tried couple of things and they didn't work very well. 

I'm posting the patch here hoping someone would be interesting suggestions or examples. 

Hi there, I've been working on a little midi looper using Seq~. 

help-with-midi-looper

it just so happens i built something that works in a similar way last night!

but i'm using 'mtr' (i used to think seq~ would be the ultimate in accuracy, but for event-rate things, you can do much better and more easily using 'mtr' these days(it changed a year or two ago, massive upgrade i see in this thing now :D)... i still keep my scheduler in 'overdrive' and 'in audio interrupt' as well as my signal-vector size at 64(this is not for everyone, but from experience, seems to be in keeping with how PD and SuperCollider both work as well(some might increase the vector size to 128 there too), i notice response times which are reliably similar across different environs keeping it this way)

HOLD UP! 🤪 before we go any further i need to close off one last set of parentheses here->), ok, (all safe to proceed now). 

here's the 'mtr' relevant part of the patch:

^i'm using transport to quantize and i keep it looping... you should go into the helpfile, tho, there's SO MUCH new stuff about it, it truly is amazing.

here's a quick vid(i need more practice, tho, and i should probably make the playback on individual tracks to happen automatically after recording happens same way it does on the first/master-control recording), but just to show my excitement over just this much so far:

demon.mp4

[Edit: i see in your patch, you also have 'overdub', i think this is the default behavior of 'mtr' so if you don't want overdub you have to send a 'clear' message to that particular track's inlet; also not shown in the patch above is the inputs being recorded, those are straight into the 4 right-most individual-track inlets of 'mtr', but you'll get all the ideas pretty quickly when you see the 'mtr' helpfile - "most impressive" *darth-vader-like heavy-breathing* ]

it just so happens i built something that works in a similar way last night!
but i'm using 'mtr' (i used to think seq~ would be the ultimate in accuracy, but for event-rate things, you can do much better and more easily using 'mtr' these days(it changed a year or two ago, massive upgrade i see in this thing now :D)... i still keep my scheduler in 'overdrive' and 'in audio interrupt' as well as my signal-vector size at 64(this is not for everyone, but from experience, seems to be in keeping with how PD and SuperCollider both work as well(some might increase the vector size to 128 there too), i notice response times which are reliably similar across different environs keeping it this way)
HOLD UP! 🤪 before we go any further i need to close off one last set of parentheses here->), ok, (all safe to proceed now).  
here's the 'mtr' relevant part of the patch:

[Edit: i see in your patch, you also have 'overdub', i think this is the default behavior of 'mtr' so if you don't want overdub you have to send a 'clear' message to that particular track's inlet; also not shown in the patch above is the inputs being recorded, those are straight into the 4 right-most individual-track inlets of 'mtr', but you'll get all the ideas pretty quickly when you see the 'mtr' helpfile - "most impressive" *darth-vader-like heavy-breathing* ]
🥰

Thanks, that looks quite interesting. I'm on Max5 still so I can't open that properly now but I will upgrade soon.

I thought using phasors it would be relatively easy to get different loops of relative lengths, and I guess it would be if the lengths were predetermined but I just want to add stuff on the fly and quantize the loop length to a subdivision of the first loop. I don't know if that's what you're doing in your patch.

Thanks, that looks quite interesting. I'm on Max5 still so I can't open that properly now but I will upgrade soon.  

I thought using phasors it would be relatively easy to get different loops of relative lengths, and I guess it would be if the lengths were predetermined but I just want to add stuff on the fly and quantize the loop length to a subdivision of the first loop.  I don't know if that's what you're doing in your patch. 

oh, sorry, i got too excited, didn’t realize ‘relative length’ meant subdivisions, that makes perfect sense now though (haha my bad).

in that case, i suppose i would stick with seq~ for now… i’ll try and find time to take a further look later today, but here’s a bump to the thread for anyone else in the know. (apologies!)

[Edit: quick update - with the latest ‘mtr’ object you can create subdivision of the first loop easily(set length in ticks while it’s synced, and just set subsequent recorded-into tracks with ‘length’ at subdivisions of that first length easily)… but if you‘ve already recorded something into a track and then change the length of that same track to something shorter(for example), it will simply truncate the recorded events to fit that length, instead of compressing the timing of those events the way a phasor~ running at a faster rate than during the original recording with seq~ would - you could probably do some processing to the recorded material using a dictionary… this might be too much work for me right now, and still wouldn’t help within the context of max5]

quantize the loop length to a subdivision of the first loop

in that case, i suppose i would stick with seq~ for now… i’ll try and find time to take a further look later today, but here’s a bump to the thread for anyone else in the know. (apologies!)

[Edit: quick update - with the latest ‘mtr’ object you can create subdivision of the first loop easily(set length in ticks while it’s synced, and just set subsequent recorded-into tracks with ‘length’ at subdivisions of that first length easily)… but if you‘ve already recorded something into a track and then change the length of that same track to something shorter(for example), it will simply truncate the recorded events to fit that length, instead of compressing the timing of those events the way a phasor~ running at a faster rate than during the original recording with seq~ would - you could probably do some processing to the recorded material using a dictionary… this might be too much work for me right now, and still wouldn’t help within the context of max5]

ok, i’ve taken a good look through your patch and i do see it’s very possible within max5, but requires a crazy amount of extra work:

first, because you can’t work with a phasor~ on the first loop(as it will have a predetermined length/frequency), you would need to create a ramp that simply counts in integers and record events into a buffer(probably doable even without gen~ in msp-proper using the ‘count~’/‘index~’ objects), once you have the first loop recorded, you then need to peek~ the values from that buffer(probably using uzi as fast as it can) and rescale all their timings within a timing-scale of 0. to 1.(basically notice how far into the buffer~ things were recorded, and divide all timings by that maximum length to get them within 0. and 1.), and then use the ‘add’ message to seq~ to add them all in with these rescaled timings after that first recording, as well as set the phasor~ frequency connected to seq~ from then on to be equal to the original-recorded length, and finally, attempt to start it all at once on-the-fly right after the first recording.

at this point, you may have a little latency between the first recording and when it starts to playback/loop, but after this first recording, you’ll then have a master-length for the phasor~ to guide subsequent recordings into seq~ by(also, i don’t think you can play sequences with different IDs from the same seq~ at the same time(?), so you might still need to create multiple seq~s to handle multi-tracking things on-the-fly)

i feel like, whatever you end up doing, as much as it pains me to not be able to help you further to stay in Max5(i like the idea of not spending on Max more than you need to), you’ll probably be better off at least paying for a monthly subscription for the latest version of Max, for only as long as you need to switch everything to ’mtr’.

ok, i’ve taken a good look through your patch and i do see it’s very possible within max5, but requires a crazy amount of extra work:
first, because you can’t work with a phasor~ on the first loop(as it will have a predetermined length/frequency), you would need to create a ramp that simply counts in integers and record events into a buffer(probably doable even without gen~ in msp-proper using the ‘count~’/‘index~’ objects), once you have the first loop recorded, you then need to peek~ the values from that buffer(probably using uzi as fast as it can) and rescale all their timings within a timing-scale of 0. to 1.(basically notice how far into the buffer~ things were recorded, and divide all timings by that maximum length to get them within 0. and 1.), and then use the ‘add’ message to seq~ to add them all in with these rescaled timings after that first recording, as well as set the phasor~ frequency connected to seq~ from then on to be equal to the original-recorded length, and finally, attempt to start it all at once on-the-fly right after the first recording. 

you can do all this using metro, counter and few colls.

you can do all this using metro, counter and few colls.
even in max 4.
we are talking about midi, or ?


Thanks for the input. I feel like there's a way but I'll explore further and post updates here. 

I'm having no issue getting the first loop going without a predetermined length, I just set up a slow phasor. I'm just curious to know what would be the best way to build a system starting from that as I feel like there's a pretty simple way to do it I'm just not getting at. Let's see if anyone else has done something similar or has any pointers.. 

Thanks for the input. I feel like there's a way but I'll explore further and post updates here. 
I'm having no issue getting the first loop going without a predetermined length, I just set up a slow phasor. I'm just curious to know what would be the best way to build a system starting from that as I feel like there's a pretty simple way to do it I'm just not getting at. Let's see if anyone else has done something similar or has any pointers.. 


this is a math specific to your own design, though, if you're asking others to figure out that strange math to reinvent a wheel they're finding easier to reinvent with an upgraded version, it's a bit of a waste of other people's time. once you figure out your own math to this degree, you should be able to figure the rest out on your own.

I'm having no issue getting the first loop going without a predetermined length, I just set up a slow phasor

@source audio yes midi! Would you have any examples?

You can add tracks by sending midi input to gates

and routing counter output to other colls for different tracks.

To shorten sub tracks times use modulo % 

All this can also be done using several seq objects synced to midi clock.

here is simple recorder / looper.
You can add tracks by sending midi input to gates
and routing counter output to other colls for different tracks.
To shorten sub tracks times use modulo % 


I have been looking at working with midi looping in max as well. Has anyone had any luck introducing an undo function in their midi looper?

I have been working with seq~. The only way I can think of implementing an undo function is to route a incoming information associated with a new recording to a separate seq~ object while the previous one is still playing:

- first pass/recording of incoming midi data goes to seq~ #1

- next pass/recording of incoming midi data goes to seq~ #2 while seq~ #1 is still playing

This would allow deleting different passes independently. Is there a better way to do this?

As to defining the initial loop length - I made a little gen~ patch that is essentially a slow phasor that can be triggered to repeat the length that is set when triggered. see attached. I use two sets of bang objects into a click~ to set length and to reset the counter.

seqphasor_01.gendsp

I have been working with seq~. The only way I can think of implementing an undo function is to route a incoming information associated with a new recording to a separate seq~ object while the previous one is still playing: 

- next pass/recording of incoming midi data goes to seq~ #2 while seq~ #1 is still playing 

This would allow deleting different passes independently. Is there a better way to do this? 

As to defining the initial loop length - I made a little gen~ patch that is essentially a slow phasor that can be triggered to repeat the length that is set when triggered. see attached. I use two sets of bang objects into a click~ to set length and to reset the counter. 

Help with midi looper