[inspiration thread] I'm looking for new, "small" patch ideas - plz HALP! :(
I'm looking for some inspiration. I'm very much into "generative", non-random patch ideas these days, like euclidean sequencing.
And I'm also building a drum sampler to replace my maxforlive rig of 9 bazillion Simpler instruments (sigh).
And the last problem I'm working on is some live sampling.
But yeah... all of those are just about stuck right now, I just can't seem to find the motivation.
HALP, dear forum. I need you in my darkest hour!
Are you interested only in msp for this new patch?
hey, nah I'm open for any kind of inspiration right now.
Hi!
What about these? I guess you know them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L-system
Recently I've been really fascinated by the idea of controlling audio through procedural modeling techniques. Maybe this is something for you too? By procedural modeling I mean things like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VIutrsYK5M
hm, what else.. I found it pretty inspiring to be able to get python going inside Max using thomas grill's stuff. Python opens up a new world for me.
Also she's pretty cool and inspiring:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahXIMUkSXX0
go for it!
Procedural modeling for driving audio is totally cool --
And I'm not sure if you know it or not but Perry Cook's book in conjunction with gen~ was really helpful for me.
I have also been really enjoying everyday listening lately (although it's more in the sound art world):
These are awesome! Please do keep dumping ideas in here - I'm struggling to get back on track :)
Perry Cook’s book in conjunction with gen~
yes! + julius o smith.. unbelievable stuff:
https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/pasp/
"I’m very much into "generative", non-random patch ideas these days, like euclidean sequencing."
It's better if you can elaborate on what this means to you.
Personally, when I think of generative stuff it's to create a stream of information that is branching off and making decisions about the fate of itself and the other streams, and it's moving at a rate where it would be impractical to try to step in and manage. Basically like chokes but in the data domain.
In most cases it best just to straight-up draw stuff in a DAW sequencer.. but on those occasions where you want to remain relatively proportional or have logic dictating the events, that's where generative tools enter into the picture.
I feel the easiest way to go about designing these systems is to look at typical modular components.. ANDs, ORs, flip-flops, comparators, etc.. and design your "dream" 9U for what you would need in a live-jam scenario in order to entertain a room full of people.
Then you can take advantage of the fact that in Max there's no cost to just adding more and more components to your ideal set-up, but basically you need to sort out what you would need in a constrained/limited real-world set up first.
As for euclidean sequencing.. seems its best approached as a template to deviate away from imo.
I'm sure you're already familiar with the excellent tutorials on this subject from Christopher Dobrian, Peter Elsea, Gregory Taylor, etc.. so it might be useful to branch out and start looking down other avenues like "Thinking in Systems" by Donella Meadows where the emphasis is on Hierarchy, or some of the modern books on game design where they provide tidy explanations of advanced state machine toplogies.
Another obvious resource is the "Nature of Code" site by Daniel Shiffman, or "Doing Data Science" from O'Reilly.
Probably the book that's had the biggest influence on me in the last decade is "Shadows of Reality" by Tony Robbin, also worth mentioning is "Beyond the Third Dimension" by Banchoff. Whether these particular books resonate with you or not I always feel it's worthwhile to read up on visual ideas in order to get hyped about audio stuff. By visiting these books at your library you're bound to find them in the company of other books that will contain inspiring info.
I could go on and on but at the end of the day the best ideas are going to come from within yourself when you're in touch with your intuitive and visionary faculties and put down the knowledge anyways
Two examples..
Art
Video
edit* links wont show - oh well
the princeton books look brilliant - diving in ASAP!
Ehdyn: Thanks a ton, this really resonates with me. Both the "real-world to concept" explanation using modulars, and this:
>so it might be useful to branch out and start looking down other avenues like "Thinking in Systems" by Donella Meadows where the emphasis is on Hierarchy, or some of the modern books on game design where they provide tidy explanations of advanced state machine toplogies.
Right on. A lot of my thinking has gravitated towards hierarchies; doing a solo electronics show completely on the lowest level of interaction with the machine isn't feasible, nor interesting. You have to have higher level controls. That's where my thoughts gravitate towards things like generating banks of data and using that as a basis for pattern design, rather than - say - manually programming step sequencers and so on.
I should probably clarify; I use the word "generative" in the popular sense, which is essentially stochastic in nature; the system may have been designed by you, but the user typically has no control over the input data or data set. That's why you get this pseudo-random thing going on, which I really dislike in music (I believe the guy that first patched white noise into a s+h did electronic music a massive disservice).
Thanks so much for the inspiration, gang.
I had a bit of a laugh watching this talk on recursion, esp. in the arts.
The beginning reminds me of 'gödel escher bach' which also has been great inspiration for me
I love that he actually gets interrupted while doing the opening lines of the interruption. Even more meta.
@Andreas
you've no doubt also checked out Simon Katan's OpenFrameworks -> SC compositions? Head-melters :)
Brendan
yeah, "head-melter" is probably a good description of his entire body of work, really.
The trick for me is an attempt to combine the intellectual aspects with the visceral. That's my main challenge, to have performative, realtime attributes in a patch setup that can contribute to both of these.
I must proclaim no expertise in this area; but it's a measure of the clarity of the presentation you posted, that he highlights the importance of, as you say, making the conceptual physical. Tangible user input into quasi-chaotic systems. Indeed. I bet this is a super rich vein of research and practice.
And, I could watch Memo Akten's stuff for HOURS
Have you checked out Iannix?
Max integration is good. Loads of possibilities. I was reminded of it looking up Simon Katan's work after reading this.
BEAP is also worth looking at if you haven't already. Some nice sequencing options there and everything can be synchronised together in interesting ways.
yeah, Iannix is really interesting as a control signal generator. I've always found it rather hard to get fully predictable things from it though, but I dig it out now and then.
BEAP is amazing - I've been using it for a year and a half now:
https://cycling74.com/forums/what-is-this-madness-in-the-packages-video/
reg. making BEAP modules, Mark: I'm working on a modular sequencing environment of my own, to meet some different needs. Not audio signals, but very clever. Planning on making a sort of translator module for it, to bridge the two systems.
Ah yes, that's probably where I first encountered Beap!
When it's finished I'm definitely interested in your sequencing environment, if you want to share it that is. I'm just making a module out of fingerpinger which is serious fun with Beap. A chucker~ based thing would be good too.. and a sampler now I'm thinking about it... It would be so great for the other modular systems out the to be packaged in this way, and for them to be interoperable.
I've actually not spent enough time with Iannix myself, but I think the scripting feature is the way to get the most out of it. Thinking about it, that video with the procedural cog reminds me a lot of the torus example in the Iannix examples - how you can scale scores up using a set of rules.
Andy Farnell's book is also very interesting btw, on the topic of proceduaral audio:
http://mitpress.mit.edu/books/designing-sound
When it’s finished I’m definitely interested in your sequencing environment, if you want to share it that is. I’m just making a module out of fingerpinger which is serious fun with Beap. A chucker~ based thing would be good too.. and a sampler now I’m thinking about it… It would be so great for the other modular systems out the to be packaged in this way, and for them to be interoperable.
Yeah, the plan is definitely to share it. We're nearing a fully functional base set of modules, I just want to get the OSC-hookups and docs right first.
A fingerpinger module is cool, I hope you plan to commit it to the beap project?
These days I'm getting a real kick out of that modularity - the fact that I can build an interesting sequencer in under a minute is pretty baller for me, and really cuts down on my sequencer obsession time ;)