Dan Nigrin

Considering the Cycling/Ableton relationship, I think we all should 

beg Brad Garton to make us a Python Max external... ;-) Or perhaps 

there's a way at Python via Java... Hmmmm:

202 Hack / PC-1600 User / VSTi Host / OMS Convert / Jack OS X / Major 

Considering the Cycling/Ableton relationship, I think we all should 
beg Brad Garton to make us a Python Max external... ;-)  Or perhaps 
there's a way at Python via Java... Hmmmm:

Dan
-- 
Dan Nigrin
Defective Records
202 Hack / PC-1600 User / VSTi Host / OMS Convert / Jack OS X / Major 
Malfunction
http://www.defectiverecords.com
http://www.jackosx.com


live-api

You mean something like this http://grrrr.org/ext/py/ ?


OK, now I feel stupid! That'll teach me to post before checking maxobjects first... Anyway, props to Mr. Grill, now off to learn Python and think of cool stuff to do with Max Live!

OK, now I feel stupid!  That'll teach me to post before checking maxobjects first... Anyway, props to Mr. Grill, now off to learn Python and think of cool stuff to do with Max  Live!

On 07 Jun 2007, at 18:42, Dan Nigrin wrote:

> Considering the Cycling/Ableton relationship, I think we all should 

> beg Brad Garton to make us a Python Max external... ;-) Or perhaps 

> there's a way at Python via Java... Hmmmm:

On 07 Jun 2007, at 18:42, Dan Nigrin wrote:
>
> Considering the Cycling/Ableton relationship, I think we all should  
> beg Brad Garton to make us a Python Max external... ;-)  Or perhaps  
> there's a way at Python via Java... Hmmmm:

did you have looked at
http://grrrr.org/ext/py/
?


> OK, now I feel stupid! That'll teach me to post before checking maxobjects first... Anyway, props to Mr. Grill, now off to learn Python and think of cool stuff to do with Max Live!

The way I see it you don't even need to learn python - just run the 

python scripts like they instruct and control Live over OSC... Looks 

rad, to be honest. I hope it pushes Ableton towards an official stance 

Dan Nigrin skrev:
> OK, now I feel stupid!  That'll teach me to post before checking maxobjects first... Anyway, props to Mr. Grill, now off to learn Python and think of cool stuff to do with Max  Live!
>
> Dan
> --
>
The way I see it you don't even need to learn python - just run the 
python scripts like they instruct and control Live over OSC... Looks 
rad, to be honest. I hope it pushes Ableton towards an official stance 
on OSC.

Yeah, just noticed the same thing. But the sources are there - 

perhaps someone who knows this stuff better than I could build a Mac 

At 2:41 PM -0400 6/7/07, Gary Lee Nelson wrote:

>Had a look. No 4.6 version and apparently no Intel.

Yeah, just noticed the same thing.  But the sources are there - 
perhaps someone who knows this stuff better than I could build a Mac 
UB version?  Or perhaps Thomas himself??

At 2:41 PM -0400 6/7/07, Gary Lee Nelson wrote:
>Had a look.  No 4.6 version and apparently no Intel.
>
>
>  > did you have looked at
>>  http://grrrr.org/ext/py/
>  > ?

-- 
Dan Nigrin
Defective Records
202 Hack / PC-1600 User / VSTi Host / OMS Convert / Jack OS X / Major 
Malfunction
http://www.defectiverecords.com
http://www.jackosx.com


At 8:34 PM +0200 6/7/07, Andreas Wetterberg wrote:

>>OK, now I feel stupid! That'll teach me to post before checking 

>>maxobjects first... Anyway, props to Mr. Grill, now off to learn 

>>Python and think of cool stuff to do with Max Live!

>The way I see it you don't even need to learn python - just run the 

>python scripts like they instruct and control Live over OSC... Looks 

>rad, to be honest. I hope it pushes Ableton towards an official 

Good point - will have to explore whether all that is possible to be 

done via the API is accessible via OSC...

At 8:34 PM +0200 6/7/07, Andreas Wetterberg wrote:
>Dan Nigrin skrev:
>>OK, now I feel stupid!  That'll teach me to post before checking 
>>maxobjects first... Anyway, props to Mr. Grill, now off to learn 
>>Python and think of cool stuff to do with Max  Live!
>>
>>
>The way I see it you don't even need to learn python - just run the 
>python scripts like they instruct and control Live over OSC... Looks 
>rad, to be honest. I hope it pushes Ableton towards an official 
>stance on OSC.

Good point - will have to explore whether all that is possible to be 
done via the API is accessible via OSC...

over here it's running fine under max 4.6 (ppc).

thomas grill has done an update some time ago.

On 07 Jun 2007, at 21:14, Dan Nigrin wrote:

> Yeah, just noticed the same thing. But the sources are there - 

> perhaps someone who knows this stuff better than I could build a 

> Mac UB version? Or perhaps Thomas himself??

> At 2:41 PM -0400 6/7/07, Gary Lee Nelson wrote:

>> Had a look. No 4.6 version and apparently no Intel.

over here it's running fine under max 4.6 (ppc).
thomas grill has done an update some time ago.
couln't find it on his site though.
v

> Yeah, just noticed the same thing.  But the sources are there -  
> perhaps someone who knows this stuff better than I could build a  
> Mac UB version?  Or perhaps Thomas himself??
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
> At 2:41 PM -0400 6/7/07, Gary Lee Nelson wrote:
>> Had a look.  No 4.6 version and apparently no Intel.
>>


this is really interesting. has anyone done any thing between max and ableton in terms of getting clip names and states to max with this one?

im just starting to get into the live api stuff. the liveapi.org site is now taken down though. and only has a bit of evidence left over on the google forums.

this is really interesting.  has anyone done any thing between max and ableton in terms of getting clip names and states to max with this one?

im just starting to get into the live api stuff.  the liveapi.org site is now taken down though.  and only has a bit of evidence left over on the google forums.


> this is really interesting. has anyone done any thing between max 

> and ableton in terms of getting clip names and states to max with 

Last time I checked, the API was Windows-only - so, no.

nick rothwell -- composition, systems, performance -- 

> this is really interesting.  has anyone done any thing between max  
> and ableton in terms of getting clip names and states to max with  
> this one?

   nick rothwell -- composition, systems, performance -- http:// 
www.cassiel.com


I'm interested by sending message via OSC with max.

I just communicate with live via LiveTelnet.

yes.
works fine under windows OS.
I'm interested by sending message via OSC with max.
I just communicate with live via LiveTelnet.


I was thinking...looking at the LiveAPI, all that the scripts do when sending data to Live is printing OSC codes (at least that's what I have assumed reading python).

Wouldn't be possible to do the same, let's say, in C? If we can, it's just a matter of building an object with some networking functions concrete to this proccess, and import it to Max.

Maybe I'm wrong, I'm an absolute begginer in Max, but I know something about networking.

I was thinking...looking at the LiveAPI, all that the scripts do when sending data to Live is printing OSC codes (at least that's what I have assumed reading python). 

Maybe I'm wrong, I'm an absolute begginer in Max, but I know something about networking.


> Wouldn't be possible to do the same, let's say, in C? If we can, it's

> just a matter of building an object with some networking functions

> concrete to this proccess, and import it to Max.

> Maybe I'm wrong, I'm an absolute begginer in Max, but I know

It had been done, look at the OSC objects from CNMAT... (maxobjects.com 

Jorge schrieb:
> Wouldn't be possible to do the same, let's say, in C? If we can, it's
> just a matter of building an object with some networking functions
> concrete to this proccess, and import it to Max.
>
> Maybe I'm wrong, I'm an absolute begginer in Max, but I know
> something about networking. 

It had been done, look at the OSC objects from CNMAT... (maxobjects.com 
to search)

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com


Some of you might know already but I started a google group for LiveAPI discussions and development here :

And i've revived the code base and moved it here :

http://www.assembla.com/wiki/show/live-api

I just put together a new demo to show Live <> LiveAPI <> Max communication via Midi because so far it hasnt been possible to get python sockets working on OSX.

You can download the files and follow the thread for that from here

http://groups.google.com/group/liveapi/browse_thread/thread/afba51728b708452

Im aiming to implement as much of the API as possible via MIDI so that it works on both Windows and OSX.

If you interested then come and join the group, hopefully with enough interest over time Ableton might start implementing more API features so we can build really crazy stuff :)

You can download the files and follow the thread for that from here 

If you interested then come and join the group, hopefully with enough interest over time Ableton might start implementing more API features so we can build really crazy stuff :)


I would like to control Live via Max using LiveAPI.

I am having some trouble getting things working.

I have been looking at the following docs...

http://www.assembla.com/spaces/live-api/documents

These examples do not seem to work. The following 

Are there any additional software componenets or settings

I would like to control Live via Max using LiveAPI.
I am having some trouble getting things working.
I have been looking at the following docs...
http://www.assembla.com/spaces/live-api/documents

These examples do not seem to work. The following 
sample does not work either...

Are there any additional software componenets or settings
I need in order to get Live to respond?


ok, what platform are you on and how exactly have you setup your system?

http://www.assembla.com/wiki/show/live-api/Running_the_API_Midi_Demo

sorry, of course you have. But what steps have you gone through? Adding 

> I would like to control Live via Max using LiveAPI.

> I am having some trouble getting things working.

> I have been looking at the following docs...

Have you gone over the instructions
http://www.assembla.com/wiki/show/live-api/Running_the_API_Midi_Demo ?

sorry, of course you have. But what steps have you gone through? Adding 
in the script in Live etc?

Anthony Palomba skrev:
> I would like to control Live via Max using LiveAPI.
> I am having some trouble getting things working.
> I have been looking at the following docs...
> http://www.assembla.com/spaces/live-api/documents
>


Okay, went over the instruction, that helped a lot.

Amazing how helpful instructions are when you read them ;)

So I installed all the files and configured ports and ran the

demo Live project. When I call getAllClips and getAllTracks 

only some of the info makes it over. The clips that do make it

over I am able to trigger via the buttons.

Any idea why clip/track names are missing?

Okay, went over the instruction, that helped a lot.
Amazing how helpful instructions are when you read them ;)

So I installed all the files and configured ports and ran the
demo Live project. When I call getAllClips and getAllTracks 
only some of the info makes it over. The clips that do make it
over I am able to trigger via the buttons.

Any idea why clip/track names are missing?


Quote: Anthony Palomba wrote on Thu, 30 October 2008 13:07

----------------------------------------------------

> Okay, went over the instruction, that helped a lot.

> Amazing how helpful instructions are when you read them ;)

> So I installed all the files and configured ports and ran the

> demo Live project. When I call getAllClips and getAllTracks 

> only some of the info makes it over. The clips that do make it

> over I am able to trigger via the buttons.

> Any idea why clip/track names are missing?

Not sure, things seem to work for me here. I just wish they added more functionality. How can you adjust BPM? How about Global Quantize? Etc...right now I am only able to launch clips/scenes.

Quote: Anthony Palomba wrote on Thu, 30 October 2008 13:07
----------------------------------------------------
> Okay, went over the instruction, that helped a lot.
> Amazing how helpful instructions are when you read them ;)
>
> So I installed all the files and configured ports and ran the
> demo Live project. When I call getAllClips and getAllTracks 
> only some of the info makes it over. The clips that do make it
> over I am able to trigger via the buttons.
>
> Any idea why clip/track names are missing?
----------------------------------------------------

Not sure, things seem to work for me here. I just wish they added more functionality. How can you adjust BPM? How about Global Quantize? Etc...right now I am only able to launch clips/scenes.


> I just wish they added more functionality. How can you adjust BPM? How about Global Quantize? Etc...right now I am only able to launch clips/scenes.

BPM and Global Quantize are accessible via regular midi.

The focus of the LiveAPI work has been on actually expanding the 

(especially output) data streams of Live.

marcos wrote:
> I just wish they added more functionality. How can you adjust BPM? How about Global Quantize? Etc...right now I am only able to launch clips/scenes.
>
BPM and Global Quantize are accessible via regular midi.
The focus of the LiveAPI work has been on actually expanding the 
(especially output) data streams of Live.


those particular features are accessible via the API but I didnt implement them for the APIMIDI setup because, as has been pointed out, they are things that you could already map via other means.

if you do want to control them using the same system then you'll have to add it yourself. :)

the sourcecode is available and there is some documentation about the protocol (although i think its slightly out of date)

http://www.assembla.com/wiki/show/live-api/API_Midi_Protocol

also the available API functions (as in what is accessible at the python level) are documented here :

http://relivethefuture.com/code/live/apidocs/

I did consider the tempo mapping situation and you'll need to think about how you want to represent a floating point number using 7-bit MIDI data. Things like :

What bounds do you want on the lowest and highest tempo? 

How fine do you want the resolution? tenths of a BPM?

or you could even devise a completely different system of using a static lookup table where you predefine the tempos you want in the python code and use cc data as indices into the table.

as you can see the problem here is that no single solution really fits all needs.

What bounds do you want on the lowest and highest tempo? 
How fine do you want the resolution? tenths of a BPM? 

as you can see the problem here is that no single solution really fits all needs.


Thanks. I did check out the documentation on the Midi Api and it does seem outdated. The only thing that has managed to work has been clip launching and scene launching. I'll try to go through the API and see if I can do something with it.

I wasn't aware quantization could be changed via Midi already, I'll check that out.

Do you plan on adding features to the MidiAPI? Track arming, Track toggle, Track Solo?

For example, according to the documentation if I send a CC message to ctlout n on Channel 4, MIDICC #13, Value 0, Scene 1 should Fire...however it doesn't.

I know how to launch scenes via Clickscene to Controller.js, but nothing in the documentation really works. I am probably being really dense about something.

I dont have any plans to add anything in particular to that version of the APIMIDI setup, what I have started (quite some time ago now) is a system for configuring your own setup. (MultiAPI)

With that you would use a text file to define how you want to get the data in and out,(via OSC or MIDI) and then define if you want to use Midi notes, CCs, which OSC addresses etc, so you could say you want to send in clip triggers via MIDI ccs but send out clip information via OSC...that kind of thing.

Obviously the rationale for this is that people can then build the system they want without having to worry about coding and also it would open up some more interesting integration scenarious, like midi in from some controller and OSC data out going to Quartz Composer or a remote SuperCollider setup, oh yeah and Max/MSP ;)

anyway...there is some code in SVN for this but I havent actually tried running it with Live yet, just in my test setup.

The problem at the moment is that I have no time to spare for any of these 'home projects', but i'll try to answer any questions to the best of my ability.

Obviously the rationale for this is that people can then build the system they want without having to worry about coding and also it would open up some more interesting integration scenarious, like midi in from some controller and OSC data out going to Quartz Composer or a remote SuperCollider setup, oh yeah and Max/MSP ;) 

Quote: marcoskohler wrote on Mon, 17 November 2008 15:43

> For example, according to the documentation if I send a CC message to ctlout n on Channel 4, MIDICC #13, Value 0, Scene 1 should Fire...however it doesn't.

the best i can suggest at the moment is the typical 'follow the flow' procedure.

verify that the data is correct at each junction in the system and see where it breaks down.

again, that may well mean digging into the python code to add some logging or other kind of feedback info.

Quote: marcoskohler wrote on Mon, 17 November 2008 15:43
----------------------------------------------------
> For example, according to the documentation if I send a CC message to ctlout n on Channel 4, MIDICC #13, Value 0, Scene 1 should Fire...however it doesn't.
----------------------------------------------------

again, that may well mean digging into the python code to add some logging or other kind of feedback info.


Ok Cool thanks for your help. I think I am going to try to hack my way through this and add some features. I've had an FCB1010 controller and used this:

http://bl0rg.net/~manuel/fcb1010-mappings/

you add that content to Live's MidiMappings folder as well, it's in python. So for example when I send a MidiCC on Channel 1, MIDICC # 15, VALUE 127...it will ARM the first track.

Now I found this function in the .py files:

def receive_midi_cc(self, channel, cc_no, cc_value):

        idx = index_of(RECORD_CLIP_CCS, cc_no)

        if (idx < len(self.song().tracks)):

         track = self.song().tracks[idx]

         scene = self.parent.song().view.selected_scene

             self.arm_track(track)

What would I have to add to your .py to get this to work? 

1) Obviously I am going to change FCB1010_CHANNEL to a number of my choosing

RECORD_CLIP_CCS = [ i * 10 + 5 for i in range(1,10)]

My overall question is, to hack together/steal my own functions from other examples and .py what declarations/vars/etc should I be copying over and to WHERE.

It would be great if you could walk me through implementing this into MIDIAPI. I know it's asking for alot, but I think once I can understand one example, the rest will flow. Thanks!

 def receive_midi_cc(self, channel, cc_no, cc_value):
	def index_of(list, elt):
	    for i in range(0,len(list)):
		if (list[i] == elt):
		    return i

	if (channel == FCB1010_CHANNEL):
	    if (cc_no in RECORD_CLIP_CCS):
		idx = index_of(RECORD_CLIP_CCS, cc_no)
		if (idx < len(self.song().tracks)):
		    track = self.song().tracks[idx]
		    scene = self.parent.song().view.selected_scene
		    if track.can_be_armed:
			if track.arm:
			    track.arm = 0
			else:
			    self.arm_track(track)

What would I have to add to your .py to get this to work? 
1) Obviously I am going to change FCB1010_CHANNEL to a number of my choosing

It would be great if you could walk me through implementing this into MIDIAPI. I know it's asking for alot, but I think once I can understand one example, the rest will flow. Thanks!


Quote: marcoskohler wrote on Mon, 17 November 2008 18:34

> My overall question is, to hack together/steal my own functions from other examples and .py what declarations/vars/etc should I be copying over and to WHERE.

> It would be great if you could walk me through implementing this into MIDIAPI. I know it's asking for alot, but I think once I can understand one example, the rest will flow. Thanks!

Sorry for the delay in replying..im not ignoring your request, i've just been too busy with deadlines recently. I'll try and put something together over the weekend.

Quote: marcoskohler wrote on Mon, 17 November 2008 18:34
----------------------------------------------------

> My overall question is, to hack together/steal my own functions from other examples and .py what declarations/vars/etc should I be copying over and to WHERE.
>
> It would be great if you could walk me through implementing this into MIDIAPI. I know it's asking for alot, but I think once I can understand one example, the rest will flow. Thanks!
>
----------------------------------------------------

Sorry for the delay in replying..im not ignoring your request, i've just been too busy with deadlines recently. I'll try and put something together over the weekend.


Live API