max 3.5 & TCP (system 7.0.1 68K)

Isjtar

Hi,

we're doing an installation on a dozen old mac SE/30's with system7 installed.
We managed to get hold of an old max version (3.5.8), but we can't get it to authorize, our disc is corrupt and the opcode download is unauthorized.
maxplay works pretty well though.

another problem is that we want them to talk to eachother. osc is not that old I guess, but there should be an object called TCP.
we have one, but it's a ppc object and won't run on the SE/30's.

any help would off course be greatly appreciated.

thank you,

isjtar

ps osx patches still work on max 3.5 system 7 which is pretty cool really : )

mzed

Quote: isjtar wrote on Sun, 05 February 2006 09:22
----------------------------------------------------

> another problem is that we want them to talk to eachother. osc is not that old I guess, but there should be an object called TCP.
> we have one, but it's a ppc object and won't run on the SE/30's.
>

----------------------------------------------------

If you download the OS 9 package here:

http://cnmat.cnmat.berkeley.edu/OpenSoundControl/Max/

you'll find the "udp" object. That guy is 68k. It's been a while since I used it, but maybe it works for you?

Isjtar

thanks : )

will check it out...

Drsbaitso

> we're doing an installation on a dozen old mac SE/30's with system7 installed.

cool, you can do additive synthesis with up 12 partials if you get them all networked!

Isjtar

Quote: bine~ wrote on Tue, 07 February 2006 13:25
----------------------------------------------------
> > we're doing an installation on a dozen old mac SE/30's with system7 installed.
>
> cool, you can do additive synthesis with up 12 partials if you get them all networked!
----------------------------------------------------

hell no, no cycle~ : ) (sorry)

Stefan Tiedje

junior wrote:
> we're doing an installation on a dozen old mac SE/30's with system7
> installed. We managed to get hold of an old max version (3.5.8), but
> we can't get it to authorize, our disc is corrupt and the opcode
> download is unauthorized. maxplay works pretty well though.

I think there was a cracked version of 3.5 or 3.6 flying around...
But I'd ask if cycling is willing to unpack some of their unsupported
old versions for these kind of projects. I guess its the best
advertisement available, and could be even incorporated into a
philosophy to keep old projects alive.
(A lot of music gets lost because of copy protection for those old
versions. And there are still some "can't read old format files" error
messages which bug me...)
The philosophy would be, that after a certain amount of time, old
unsupported versions of Max get unlocked, as a last action after any
support definitely has stopped. (This could as well apply for the last
OS 9 Max for PPC) One could look at it as a sort of demo version.
Anybody who gets seriously involved with such a version would surely
consider to buy an actual version later.

Just an idea, would be nice...

> another problem is that we want them to talk to eachother. osc is not
> that old I guess, but there should be an object called TCP. we have
> one, but it's a ppc object and won't run on the SE/30's.

I am pretty sure the SE/30 didn't have ethernet connectors, networking
that time was apple talk with serial cables as I recall. Maybe there was
a serial object for 68k...
Elsewise you could go the Midi route to let them talk to each other, but
that needs a lot of old midi interfaces...

Stefan

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Stefan Tiedje
Klanggestalter
Electronic Composition
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nick rothwell | project cassiel

andré sier

On 2006, Feb, 13 , at 10:09 AM, Stefan Tiedje wrote:

>Just an idea, would be nice...

yes it would be nice. very very nice. it would clean up a lot of monkeys
in the attic.
what do the fathers of max think about this?

thanks

Kasper

actually it's exactly what Proppllerhead just did with rebirth -
which is no longer supported and became a free download

kasper

Peter Castine

I know damn' well I had an Ethernet-capable SE/30 when I was writing my
doctoral diss. because I had to fight with the raging idiots at the
university computer center who insisted that it was impossible to
connect Macs to Ethernet and in the end had to go out and by a card out
of my own budget (PC users were given cards that the Rechenzentrum
bought in quantity).

As I write there are two eBay offers for Asante Ethernet cards for
SE/30 (also compatibile with the IIsi), one in the US and one in
Canada. Look up article #s 8764625126 or 8762675704 at your friendly
local eBay server.

BTW: I've got a pizza-box Mac in the cellar with a working Ethernet
card. We were using it in the house as a router for a while.

Just 'cuz Ethernet wasn't built in _ab Werk_ don't mean it can't be
done.

On around Feb 13, 2006, at 11:58, Nick Rothwell said something like:
> The only other solution I can think of is to bring up a fleet of
> serial-port PPP servers...

That's the sort of thing I got from TUB/RZ. Tsk, tsk...

Best -- Peter

Jennek Geels

On 13 Feb 2006, at 11:58, Nick Rothwell wrote:

> I believe (but my memory might be failing me) that MacTCP could
> tunnel TCP/IP through AppleTalk, but it needed fancy proxy hardware
> (Gatorboxes) to make it all work.

let me fill in here.
there were a number of ethernet bridges
- serial to ethernet
- scsi to ethernet
- or a extension card in the SE/30 slot
If you had one of these, you got
1. Ethertalk: AppleTalk over Ethernet
2. MacTCP for TCP/IP over ethernet.

a cayman gatorbox would give you
1. a localtalk to ethertalk bridge
2. a half-router for tunneling appletalk over TCP/IP
to another half-router (i.e. another gatorbox)

I have scrapped all gatorboxes and bridge boxes and so on that I
installed
and managed for the research lab I worked for back then.
I only kept my SE/30 with ethernet card.
I think I have the MacTCP stuff and PPP stuff still around for System 7,
if that is of any help. I suppose it is still out there on the web as
well.

AFAIK there is no way to run TCP/IP over localtalk, so this rules out
using the traditional localtalk cabling (for which you need no bridges)
for running OSC.

If you are going to buy old bridges, you may find that many of them have
thick ethernet connectors. If so, call me, I still have a number of
transceivers
for thin ethernet or UTP which you can have.

HtH
-jennek

Isjtar

thank you all for your replies.
the macs all have ethernet cards, but if we can't get max to communicate with those, we'll use serial.

we mailed cycling about releasing 3.5 to us and they replied they don't support 3.5 anymore, which wasn't the question and it seems rather obvious that we wouldn't expect technical support.

either way, a cracked/released version would be nice and if cycling were to decide to release unsupported versions, that would indeed reaffirm their good reputation.

Peter Castine

On around Feb 13, 2006, at 23:18, jennek geels said something like:
> there were a number of ethernet bridges
> - serial to ethernet
> - scsi to ethernet
> - or a extension card in the SE/30 slot
> If you had one of these, you got
> 1. Ethertalk: AppleTalk over Ethernet
> 2. MacTCP for TCP/IP over ethernet.

If I may add... I was consulting for a Mac dealer in SE/30 days. We
opted exclusively for the Ethernet card option as most reliable and
fastest.

The Asante cards were all for "thinwire" (BNC connectors). Not as
archaic as thickwire, but most of the kids nowadays probably don't
associate Ethernet with BNC cables either.

There seem to be a trickle of Asante cards on eBay. Afraid I don't have
my old SE/30 to offer you (it stayed at the university when my contract
ended).

Isjtar

thanks everybody for all the input.
so, we've got the SE/30s to see eachother, we have OpenSoundControl and udp.
no loading errors, but anything we send to it gives the following error: UDP doesn't understand "FullPacket"

any of you remember what this could mean?

thanks

isjtar/junior