Max 7: Where is the Fun?
One of the biggest challenges in designing software is dealing with what is known as the first user experience. We’ve been looking at this problem for
[See the full post at: Max 7: Where is the Fun?]
"...We’ll be interested to hear your opinion of whether we’ve hit our goal of reducing T3..."
IMHO, the result this time is faaaaar better than with Max6 but... It could be, with not so much effort, so much better. Working with Max is still a time hog and there is no real reason for that as you could do with it what you want, be it simple or complex. I still don't understand why you feel the need of being "innovative" or "smart" where simpler way of doing the same thing already exists. For example :
I've seen all of the tour. It's nice and funny. Good. But when I come back to Max, I don't even have a way to find in no time what's new : shortcuts ? New features ? Do I have to see again the "funny" tour ? Do I have to dig in the so-well, so-new integrated Max browser typing some esoteric key words ?
Max 7 is released. I still can't find a well made (i.e. short and efficient) pdf with "what's new", new features and how to quickly find them and above all, at least, a pdf Max manual. Pdf because, I already know how to search in it. It can remain open as Max is open or not, etc.
With that said, thanks for your great work !
In designing any software there's always a trade off between complexity-capability vs simplicity-limitations. The more capable a program is the more complex it becomes to use. The user can determine every parameter they want and this becomes a knowledge burden time consuming task very quickly. Max 7, being a programming language, is at the very end of the complexity-capability spectrum. You can create almost anything that can be imagined but the learning curve is very steep. On the other hand a simpler software comes with the limitations imposed by the lack of customisation but offers a quick and efficient way to get a task done.
The real problem that Cycling74 as the creators of Max 7 is: How to create a user experience with a smooth transition from simple-limited to the complex-capable software that Max 7 is?
IMHO, you have done a great job with Max 7 in this domain, but there are lots of room for improvement. The advantage when solving this problem is that in Max is possible to "simulate limitations". The use of bpatcher modules with nice user interfaces is a perfect way to hide complexity from the beginner user that is just getting aquatinted with Max. The official inclusion of BEAP and VIZZIE modules are a great success because they show in a very simple manner the modular nature of Max patching, while achieving measurable results fast.
Another key to improve Max usability lies in better education resources. I really like the new Video Tutorials (Lesson Browser) that have a "patch along" approach, but there are only a few at the moment and I feel they also could use a human narrator. Learning in 2014 should be filled with lots of Video, interactive Smartphone applications, immediate dictionary lookups and animations of all sorts. Any pedagogical resource that can facilitate learning Max is very welcomed, so those Video Tutorials are a step in the right direction. I would love a re-designed documentation with a modern pedagogical approach in mind. Developers may be used to reading long and heavy technical books that could be used to kill a person (literally), but Artist and Musicians are not people like that by nature. I know very good musicians that wouldn't work with Max 7 even if I gave them a free copy.
Anyway, just wanted to share share my thoughts in this matter. Thanks for Max 7, I have really enjoyed the improvements.
Firs of all, my english is far from perfect. I live literally in the corner of the world.
I really love MAX. Im no expert but I use it for experimental theater music and for pop music also. Max has changed my way of thinking and enhaced my creativity. I Think that Max should never be against his own nature. It´s true, Max is hard to learn. In times where everything should be fast an easy, MAX takes time and effort but thats the beauty about it. The results are sounds and images and things that no one has done before. To know how to use Max is to be aware of the components of the matereal you are using. And that is great. I also think that there should be more tutorials. For example: Electronic Music and Sound Design
Theory and Practice with Max and MSP is a great book but you have to buy it, it doesnt come with MAX. I also have to say is that a great software model is Native Instrument REAKTOR. I know that is a different concept but reaktor comes with great pre built modules and at the same time you can creat your own devices. I know that with MAX people can download other users devices but it is different for the average costumer if he knows that he will have great paches that are included in the program that not only reveal what max can do but also are great tu use in particular projects.
Finally I really ahe to thank all the people that work for this great great software.
I think Max7 likely achieves some specific goals effectively: easier barrier to entry, faster means of discovery, and the promotion of very clear concepts of modularity (Beap and Vizzie on the side). I've only been using Max for a year, although I've been around it for some time (I work with people who use it, etc), and I still recall the issues that were vague to me and unclear to others. M7 seems to really clear the picture up in my opinion.
Well, as a Max educator and long long time user (y. 2000), I have mixed feelings about this.
Sure Max 7 is easier, better for first timers, but I fear Max is slowly going down.
I find stuff like beap and vizzle, little more than toys for kids... the software also uses lots of graphic resources and you can't use it well with a retina, one must use it in low res... Of course I love the in-app help you get with max. but don't push it too far...
I never appreciated the Max for Live thing, I thought it was two step down rather than one step up... Max was born in IRCAM, I wish it will continue to follow that path rather than chasing the music software industry trend that only wants simpler and simpler instruments for wannabe dance musicians.
Electronic music is plagued by simplification.
For me Max is my violin, I hope it will not turn into a toy.
Compare the Audio Status panels: from Max6 to Max7, it uses 33% more screen space, presenting you with... less information. I do not understand how this is an improvement: for sure, it's not more useful, but I do not think it's more fun either.
@GIORGIOESSE
On the other hand, [gen~] is included and its gaining on traction. Is there anything from Max5 that you think its missing? As long as things are added (in a structured and sound way) - even if those are simple things, it will only reach a wider audience gain resources for further development. Things like [gen~] wouldn't happen if people didn't buy Max, and they buy it because its friendly and approachable.
The "dumbing down" is happening all over programming world anyway, Apple Swift follows the same logic and distances you from low-level programming. I won't comment that, since I don't feel competent to, just mentioning my observations.
Then again, you always have Pure Data.
objection: For me the introduction of Max4Live was opening fantasic pathes of working seamlessly between "high-" and "low-level" aspects. and it made me use Max intensively in rehearsal situations as i can prototype a suggestion literaly in minutes.
PS: who the f*** needs retina displays? if we speak of technology "going" down at the moments i'd say it's exactly this weired hunt for abstract parameters. like cpu clock speeds in the 90is. But I am sure this is just one of those tech fashion waves that are coming and going.
I don't get the "dumbing down" arguments: What could you do in max 4,5,6 that you can't reasonably do in 7?
@Jan: why? Retina displays look better, improve readability of the display and in general offer a more pleasant visual experience. It's like arguing why do you need 16millions colors if 60-something-thousand is plentiful for an average user.
@Wetterberg: a lot of people interpret "easier for beginners" as "dumbing down". Except its really not, as long as they don't remove any functionality...
But some people complain when they have a 4channel mixer ready and they don't have to waste time spending patching one themselves.
besides, BEAP patcher are just normal max bpatchers, meaning you can study them and work with them just like with any other thing in Max.
Retina will not go like another fashion wave: it's just computer displays catching on with ink-on-paper resolution.
I agree with @PLOKI and @JEAN-FRANCOIS CHARLES on a few points regarding retina displays and that "dumbing down" is not a fair description. In fact I was just having a discussion with a pretty serious, experimental, trumpet player who uses Max4Live (and Ableton Live as well) for his performances. There may just be an assumption that Live serves narrow music needs which a damaging assumption even Live users have.
Live as a tool is more versatile than many people are able or willing to understand. Unfortunately music trends obfuscate this. It's not as versatile as Max however which is why some of us find the Max4Live functionality to be a huge benefit.
@PLOKI
"The 'dumbing down' is happening all over programming world anyway, Apple Swift follows the same logic and distances you from low-level programming. I won’t comment that, since I don’t feel competent to, just mentioning my observations."
I think we need to face the harsh light of reality here: Max substantially abstracts code as a means of making tasks easier. Many Comp Sci people wouldn't even bother to laugh at Max because... they've never even heard of it. I personally would love to get closer to the C++ (not that I'm proficient in it yet). However it's not often necessary. To say programming languages are being "dumbed down" is a strange way to observe technical trends. These layers of abstraction are sometimes just intended to simplify processes and resolve mistakes of lower level languages. These higher level languages sometimes just try to help people skip the illogical parts. It was only 25 years ago that people were calling C++ a higher level language...
@JEAN-FRANCOIS CHARLES
"it uses 33% more screen space, presenting you with… less information."
Max7 does allow you to close those sidebars but as a UX issue, it's flawed. Once it is closed those sidebars are tricky to re-open. You have to place the cursor just right for it the sidebar to reveal itself. So basically Max partially addresses this the screen space issue and hopefully it will be fixed in a future update.
@ PLOKI Nothing wrong with retina in general. I just don't need it and prefere to use the GPU resources for other things than just more pixels.
@ JEAN-FRANCOIS CHARLES You are right, i didn't meant the displays will disappear, but the buzz around them will. And one day GPUs will hopefully catch up ;)
In any case now i am completly off toppic :)