Max For Live Device Crash and Live Crash

    Aug 24 2012 | 4:41 pm
    I have created a device so that I can quickly control multiple Live and Midi features from one panel. After my last set of edits Live started crashing when I edit the Device, exit Live, Add the Device, and other points. So it's on load/unload rather than a specific user event. I do have some LoadMess statements.

    • Aug 24 2012 | 4:45 pm
      Since I can't edit the device as that crashes Live, I can't undo some of my later changes. And it appears I can't edit the device without having Live running and accessing the device from Live. So I can't figure out how to debug this problem. I submitted a support request to Ableton but they're response was basically "this is a crash in the device which is then crashing live. we can't/won't debug your device for you. fixing crashes is important to us but we can't provide you any details on if/when the cause of your crash will be addressed in a future release"
      Personally, I find this unacceptable as I bought Live and Max for Live from Ableton. I understand the difficulty, but selling a solution for which you can offer no support or guidance for debugging a crash (especially when "edit device" causes the crash) is not a reasonable answer.
      This is only my second device (first was purely midi control), and first to apply control to ableton. Any help is appreciated.
    • Aug 24 2012 | 6:28 pm
      theres a way to disable loadmess statements, do a search...
      And ableton is never going to debug your own patch.... Never going to happen!
      Cheers D
    • Aug 24 2012 | 6:29 pm
      Try holding Shift+Cmd/Ctrl when opening the editor.
      This will disable loadbang and loadmess statements.
    • Aug 24 2012 | 6:54 pm
      "Personally, I find this unacceptable as I bought Live and Max for Live from Ableton. I understand the difficulty, but selling a solution for which you can offer no support or guidance for debugging a crash (especially when "edit device" causes the crash) is not a reasonable answer.".
      Oh brother.... :rolleyes: (yes, I know these aliases don't work here).
      Imagine people buying into Visual Studio to develop software, going price sits roughly around E 1200,- and up. And Microsoft won't even bother to help you de-compile your program if your executable accidentally crashes your entire computer and you lost all your source code.
      Dude, get serious.
      Next time think before you try. Programming brings risks. Period.
      Its those risks why I always keep 2 (sometimes more) copies of my patches around. In my main directory I keep the (frozen) patches which equal the stuff I also put online, I use those myself in my day to day work. In another directory I keep my experimental stuff; this is the stuff I work on which, next to the patch itself, sometimes also contains several working branches.
      You can't blame Ableton or Cycling '74 for flaws in your own workflow just like you can't blame Microsoft when your C# program manages to crash Windows and completely erased your hard drive.
      RTFM comes to my mind here.
    • Aug 24 2012 | 7:48 pm
      Right, I can reproduce the crash but you're talking nonsense if you claim that you cannot edit the device. The crash only occurs after you opened the device and then close the editor. As such you have plenty of options to edit it as well as debug it.
      Even though I don't think you really deserve much courtesy considering the rant up there I do know all too well how frustrating it can be to lose control over a program (worse; losing all your work!). In this case a patch which you obviously spent quite some time on. So I'll go with the benefit of the doubt (I knew this was a bad night to stay sober, if I weren't I wouldn't have bothered ;-)).
      Start by making a second copy of your device. Then pull it in, edit it and remove all loadmess and loadbangs objects.
      Now, I know what you're going to say: "If I try to save my patch it also crashes.".
      Well, here's where it gets funny. Live crashes, but Max doesn't. I know; I know... Without Live you can't really save in Max. Or can you?
      Control-a, control-c. Now close the whole kaboodle. Restart Live, pull in a pristine Max... wait a sec.
      Well, duh.. You created a MIDI effect; what's that audio routing doing in there? A MIDI effect will never get any incoming audio signals what so ever. Get rid of that.
      But to continue my story:
      Pull in a pristine Max MIDI effect (so an empty one), open it, control-a, del. Then paste your stuff in it. Optionally setting the patch to open in presentation mode.
      Now you regained some control over your patch.
      fwiw; removing the loadmess stuff and the audio forward will stabilize your patch again. Although I think you could optimize stuff quite a bit here and there.
      As such; this is not a lost situation. Follow my steps above and you'll be just fine. Oh; you will need to re-adjust your presentation but that's merely control-a and moving around.
    • Aug 24 2012 | 7:56 pm
      Try turning Live's audio off before opening the editor. If you are using any API stuff (like linking to a control surface), make sure the CS script is de-installed from your preferences.
      Just some ideas, there are lots of ways to remove potential causes for a crash before they happen.
    • Aug 25 2012 | 4:03 am
      Take it easy, folks. I didn't state and didn't mean to imply that I expect Ableton to debug my patch. However, I do expect a better answer than "sorry we can provide you no guidance." More specifically, I'd expect them to be able to point to documentation, faq, or other that states how to begin the process. As someone in this thread mentioned, if MS provide no code validation utilities, no debugging tools, and said, "sorry, I know it's all our products but go talk to strangers" They would not have been in business as long as they have. Someone else stated "yes you can edit" - sorry, not on my system. If I hit Edit device, Live Crashes but doesn't exit freezing both Live and Max. If I force close on Live, Max crashes. So, no I can't ... at least not with the tools I've been given till now.
      And after several back and forths with Ableton, even they agree that a crash that prevents editing the patch is serious enough to escalate.
      So truly, thanks very much for the helpful statements and suggestions - that's what Ableton should have provided. No thanks for the criticism and flames.
    • Aug 26 2012 | 7:24 pm
      Thanks to all that replied with helpful information. I was able to get the device stable again with some minor tweaks. There was an Audio stream in there but I don't know why - must have been a typo I didn't notice or a cut/paste from an example that I didn't delete all of.