OpenMusic + MaxMSP


    Aug 26 2006 | 8:56 am
    Does anyone here have any experience with OpenMusic? I'm just curious to hear anyone's thoughts about MaxMSP vs. OpenMusic for generative/interactive composition stuff. Also, I'm curious about integration with MaxMSP.
    Any OpenMusic stories anybody can share?
    thanks,
    J.

    • Aug 26 2006 | 10:06 am
      >Does anyone here have any experience with OpenMusic? I'm just >curious to hear anyone's thoughts about MaxMSP vs. OpenMusic for >generative/interactive composition stuff. Also, I'm curious about >integration with MaxMSP. > >Any OpenMusic stories anybody can share? >
      i still use Patchwork much more than open music, but for your question that's about the same...
      for composition, PW/OM is much better than max - i was meant for this. Now, what is called composition here is assembling material which will end up as a score, or in some cases a midi file.
      now if it is a generative stuff, or interactive... well OM does not work in real time (even if I know some crazy guys who used LISP in real time....)
      as of OM & max, when the obvious would be a midi-file, what i did a lot more was to use OM (or PW) to generate files which i then could use in colls - could be frequencies for microtonal stuff, precise time, pan or spatialisation data.....
      also great for generating scores for CSound - which you could use in max with csound~
      hope it helps
      best
      kasper -- Kasper T. Toeplitz noise, composition, bass, computer http://www.sleazeArt.com
    • Aug 26 2006 | 10:43 am
      hmm... Intersting, thanks.
      I guess, more specifically, what I'm interested in is developing a system which analyzes existing music (midi files), then builds a sort of style template from the analysis. This part would be non-realtime, but the analysis data would then be used to improvise in realtime. I'm imagining this as a modular, agent-based environment, where the little "improvisors" partly respond to user input and partly to one another.
      I was looking at OpenMusic because it seems to have some ready-made tools for analysis. I guess markov and histo are sort of like this as well... so I suppose I may just be getting lazy! I also like the fact that OM seems to have some nice notation-based objects, and a more useful timeline-ish implementation. But perhaps this is all just a grass-is-greener thing(?)
      Mind you, I do like the "scoob" music representation in ftm; it's pretty intuitive and musically clear. Though I wish you could drag note duration (maybe soon).
      Anyway, thanks again. If you have any more thoughts about any of the above please let me know.
      cheers,
      J.
    • Aug 26 2006 | 10:48 am
      oops! Almost forgot. Is there any point trying to build OM 4.7.1 with OpenMCL, or do I really need the digitool MCL (or to just buy the distro from Ircam)? I'm on Mac OS X.4.7 (Intel or PPC).
      thanks,
      J.
    • Aug 26 2006 | 10:53 am
      > >Anyway, thanks again. If you have any more thoughts about any of the >above please let me know.
      if you start from scratch in PW/ OM i would sugest to have a look at Mikael laurson's PWGL (http://www2.siba.fi/PWGL/ )
      it's still beta etc, but for some reason i belive it has a great potential (Laurson , as far as i know, is the person behin patchwork which then became openMusic)
      pwgl is freeware, by the way - and from what i understood (never really tried it yet) it does real time synthesis...
      best
      kasper -- Kasper T. Toeplitz noise, composition, bass, computer http://www.sleazeArt.com
    • Aug 26 2006 | 11:04 am
      Hey! That looks nice!!! Real music notation, old-school. Yum!
      thanks for posting that link!
      J.
    • Aug 26 2006 | 5:56 pm
      Wow--PWGL looks really nice! I'll have to try it out soon. Along the lines of open score file analysis and manipulation, I'm thinking that the future may very well be in MusicXML. Is anyone working on this, besides just using it as a storage and transfer format?
      Tim
    • Aug 27 2006 | 1:05 pm
      On Sat, 26 Aug 2006, Kasper T Toeplitz wrote:
      > now if it is a generative stuff, or interactive... > well OM does not work in real time (even if I know some crazy guys who used > LISP in real time....)
      .. definitely *not* for those afraid of crashing max/msp. :-)
    • Sep 14 2018 | 9:30 pm
      I wonder if now 12 years after the original post the situation is different. I wonder if somebody has done an equivalence and introduced improvements in max to take it at the same level as OM. I am using MAXSCORE but I still think there are more tools needed or I still dont know them.. Can everything in OM be duplicated in MAX?
      best
    • Sep 14 2018 | 10:07 pm
      As composer's tool, with Bach and Cage packages available (via the package manager) Max can do more or less the same, what OpenMusic or PWGL (in terms of features and style). Of course OM and PWGL are great environments and you can use them together with Max (and connect them via OSC, MIDI, etc.) or separately. For sound synthesis and visual media Max is still much better (actually OM and PWGL have no Jitter equivalents - so it has no sense to adopt them to visuals). There are of course more visual environments available now, however - in my opinion - Max is really strong on this field. I think, to supplement Max with something really different, you would need to put it together with one of text-based languages or frameworks (SuperCollider and CSound are good examples).
      That's what seems to me fairly new are the growing capabilities of web browsers - some audio synthesis/analysis and code-driven composition is now possible thru simple JavaScript code running inside the browser.
    • Sep 14 2018 | 10:40 pm
      Thanks, I did not know about those packages..! I appreciate it! so you recommend me to stick to MAX? I was considering learning OM, but It is difficult to find a good manual, the internet one sucks... and the tutorials in youtube are incomplete... and very basic... and there is no proper teaching book published that I know...
    • Sep 14 2018 | 11:02 pm
      Hmmm... as you can try Max for free for 30 days and OM and PWGL are available as freeware you can play a bit with them and choose environment which is best for you.
      However, in my opinion, it is true, that documentation and tutorials related to MaxMSP are really valuable and this affects the way and speed of learning and using.
    • Sep 14 2018 | 11:33 pm
      Thanks! very nice reply!
    • Sep 15 2018 | 12:51 pm
      I think that Max and OM, despite having a superficial patching resemblance, encourage more or less opposite ways of working. Most Max work I see is a bottom-up approach, while OM tends to be a top-down approach. By this, I mean that OM is organized around processing events with a degree of musical knowledge baked in, so it works better than Max as a purely compositional and didactic tool for music. Max's strengths to me seem to be for tinkering and "swiss army knife" approaches of interconnecting anything and everything.
      Having dabbled with OM, I agree that the documentation could be a lot better. I suspect that a lot of IRCAM's methodology is that if you don't want to be thrown into the deep end of the pool, then you pay to go to their workshops and have them show you the particulars. Which of course not everybody can do! I still kick myself for missing the OM workshops at Columbia years ago, but even if I was aware of them then, I would still have been unable to afford them, despite living in NYC at the time.
    • Sep 15 2018 | 4:11 pm
      Nice remarks.
    • Sep 15 2018 | 7:42 pm
      Thanks. I wonder if there is a good forum for OM? can we make one here? cheers
    • Sep 15 2018 | 8:41 pm
      The only forum I know of for OM is the IRCAM ForumNet. There isn't a lot of traffic, but the discussions are of good quality, and the developers are there. Trying to have a whole forum about OM here through C74 I think might be imposing upon them a bit, but there are many discussions to be had about using OM with Max, which are certainly relevant here. For instance, Max easily speaks the same language of OSC and SDIF, so many users seem to hash out their compositional ideas in OM, and then handle the synthesis in Max.
      There are many tutorial files hidden in OM. If you go to the help menu, it gives you the option of installing these to your workspace. My favorite sources of information about OM these days have been old patches IRCAM used to distribute by Mikhail Malt and his students, but they are from OM v3-4 and need to be updated. These are great because they are commented. Also there is a whole website about OM which I think is by Takuya Imahori, which I use Google to translate from Japanese: https://www55.atwiki.jp/openmusic/
    • Sep 15 2018 | 10:45 pm
      Very much appreciated... I did not know Takuya made a dedicated website on this... I will look into it... best!