OSC, vst~ & Reaktor

On Feb 1, 2007, at 2:03 AM, f.e wrote:
> i remember this has been discussed a long time ago, but i can't get a
> hand on it. When using Reaktor5 in a vst~, it says something like
> "reaktor has 1000 parameters". But in my reaktor ensemble, the control
> IDs are up to 1253, and Max refuses to send any data to parameters IDs
> greater than 1000... First problem.
>
> So i thought about OSC but it seems to be totally disabled in reaktor
> as a plugin. No way to activate it. I made some OSC setup in Reaktor
> as standalone, then relaunch the same ensemble as a plugin, everything
> has disappeared... Could someone confirm or write about her/his own
> experience with OSC and reaktor as a plugin in Max ?

Hello,

Yes, I've run into this issue also. The issue with Reaktor not
supporting OSC when being run as a plugin is not limited to when it is
running inside vst~. As lame as it might seem, it is true, Reaktor
doesn't support OSC when using it as a plugin in any host. I've posted
a message on the NI forums about this but for the most part it seemed
like I was the only one that cared.

I can't remember exactly what the 1000 parameters message is about, but
I don't think it has to do with Max. This is a message I've seen when
running Reaktor as a stand alone many times. Typically I just hit ok
when I get this message and as far as I've noticed the ensemble still
seems to work fine.

Cheers,
Dave

Try this: In reaktor select your instrument, then open the instrument
properties window, then click on the rightmost tab (upper right corner of
the instrument properties window), then click on the drop-down menu in the
lower right corner that says "IDs." Select the option that says "sort and
compress IDs." Now look at the number under "Max ID in use", it may have
decreased if there were unused ID #'s between the used ID #'s (sort and
compress pushes all of the ID#'s together, so that there's no unused ID #'s
in between the used ones).

Now double click on the box that says "Max ID," and enter the number that
appears under "Max ID in use." Now, you can send data to parameter IDs less
than the number under "Max ID in use," and you know that all of your IDs #'s
are below the number under "Max ID in use," so therefore you know that you
can send data to all of the parameter ID#'s that are in use in your project.
If you add more parameters to your ensemble in Reaktor later, you'll have to
do this process again.

Lastly, if you want to change which instrument's ID #s are assigned to which
knob/button/slider/whatever, select "instrument up" or "instrument down" in
the "IDs" dropdown menu. "Sort and Compress" automatically groups each
instrument's ID #'s together, so you can't change that, but you can change
which instrument is first, second, etc. in the numbering order.

I don't know about OSC, but it may say in the PDF manual that comes with
Reaktor, and if not the Reaktor forum on the NI website is a good place to
ask, people are very helpful on there. The answer might already be posted
somewhere on there...

http://www.nativeinstruments.de/forum_us/forumdisplay.php?f=30

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Watson"
To: ;
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 3:48 AM
Subject: Re: [maxmsp] OSC, vst~ & Reaktor

>
> On Feb 1, 2007, at 2:03 AM, f.e wrote:
>> i remember this has been discussed a long time ago, but i can't get a
>> hand on it. When using Reaktor5 in a vst~, it says something like
>> "reaktor has 1000 parameters". But in my reaktor ensemble, the control
>> IDs are up to 1253, and Max refuses to send any data to parameters IDs
>> greater than 1000... First problem.
>>
>> So i thought about OSC but it seems to be totally disabled in reaktor as
>> a plugin. No way to activate it. I made some OSC setup in Reaktor as
>> standalone, then relaunch the same ensemble as a plugin, everything has
>> disappeared... Could someone confirm or write about her/his own
>> experience with OSC and reaktor as a plugin in Max ?
>
> Hello,
>
> Yes, I've run into this issue also. The issue with Reaktor not supporting
> OSC when being run as a plugin is not limited to when it is running inside
> vst~. As lame as it might seem, it is true, Reaktor doesn't support OSC
> when using it as a plugin in any host. I've posted a message on the NI
> forums about this but for the most part it seemed like I was the only one
> that cared.
>
> I can't remember exactly what the 1000 parameters message is about, but I
> don't think it has to do with Max. This is a message I've seen when
> running Reaktor as a stand alone many times. Typically I just hit ok when
> I get this message and as far as I've noticed the ensemble still seems to
> work fine.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Dave
>

I know this may sound silly, but if you're going to control Reaktor via OSC, why do you need to use it in plugin form?

>If you know a way to open 2 (& more) standalone applications using
>the fucking same audio driver *without* Rewire or this crappy shit
>we have on xp called Virtual audio cable, let's have a drink, mate.
>
>
>>I know this may sound silly, but if you're going to control Reaktor
>>via OSC, why do you need to use it in plugin form?

you might have your reasons (is it called "win" ??) but teh quastion
makes sense to me, even if i would say it a little differently:

"why don't you use your Reaktor as a plug-in in max?" _ it works
pretty well, you don't need OSC (or rewire or..) to control it from
max....

all the best

kasper
--
Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer
http://www.sleazeArt.com

http://www.myspace.com/sleazeart

>hello kasp,
>
>if you read the beginning of the thread, you'll see that Reaktor
>assign control's IDs on the fly, sometimes over 1000, which make
>them *unreachable* from Max when used in a vst~...
>
>Thanks to Eric, reducing the number of IDs does work.
>
>But the OSC support problem is still here and i'll move to the NI
>forum about this

Yes

I am not a great expert at Reaktor, but, if you want use it as a vst
plug-in in max, i still belive you don't need to use OSC, and you
don't have to care about the ID's it assigns:

simply open your Reaktor ensemble - the one you made and want to
control from inside max

_clik on the parameter you want to control (it's ctrl-clik on a MAC,
probably some sort of right-click on win...)
_select the "midi learn" fonction (in reaktor)
_send a midi controller message from max (in the form of [midievent
xxx yy $1] - xxx being a Control Change number (between 176 -191) yy
being a controller number (0-127) and $1 being your controller value
- in "midi" that's 0-127

if I am right that's a total possibility of 2032 different controls

if that's not enough, you can probably use the aftertouch (2032 more)
(208-223) or/and pitchbend (224-239) .......

this way you don't give a s*** about what reaktor assigns

hope it helps

here at least it seems to work...

ah, for it to work you have to have the audio ON

best

kasper

not sure why you exspect reaktor VST to accept OSC ... but
VST3 and appropiate VST3 host programs will allow to implement
this easily.

taking into account what the usual speed of NI updates is,
they should come up with this "soon"

-110

>
>
>if that's not enough, you can probably use the aftertouch (2032
>more) (208-223) or/and pitchbend (224-239) .......
>

sorry, poly aftertouch is 160-175, see p.78, in "getting started"

kasper
--
Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer
http://www.sleazeArt.com

http://www.myspace.com/sleazeart