OT: Audio interfaces for MaxMSP
I'm not entirely happy with my E-MU 1616m's driver performance (ASIO) on XP Pro while using MaxMSP. I experience some anomalies such as distorted audio when the MSP engine is interrupted, initialized, etc., and loss of audio and/or MIDI output when using sync~ (unless I switch to ASIO4ALL and back to E-MU ASIO, then it works). Cycling74 is unable to confirm this behavior with their own testbeds and I don't experience these anomalies with Directsound, MME, WDM, or ASIO4ALL drivers so it leads me to believe the problem is with E-MU ASIO. (I've sent a full report to E-MU).
Anyway, I'd like to hear from others who are having nothing but the best experience with their audio interfaces (Mac, PC, firewire, or USB, preferably) and MaxMSP.
For example, is it easy to switch DSP panel options, sample rates, signal vector sizes, start windows, instantiate MSP objects, etc., on the fly without glitches, distortion or crashes? Essentially, the E-MU ASIO driver on my PC has trouble with all of these, occasionally.
My budget constraints are sub-$1000 but I'm open to any suggestions. I'm especially interested in firewire or USB 24/192 interfaces with extremely low jitter.
Thanks in advance...
Matt
RME (all)
matt wrote:
> I'm not entirely happy with my E-MU 1616m's driver performance (ASIO) on XP Pro while using MaxMSP. I experience some anomalies such as distorted audio when the MSP engine is interrupted, initialized, etc., and loss of audio and/or MIDI output when using sync~ (unless I switch to ASIO4ALL and back to E-MU ASIO, then it works). Cycling74 is unable to confirm this behavior with their own testbeds and I don't experience these anomalies with Directsound, MME, WDM, or ASIO4ALL drivers so it leads me to believe the problem is with E-MU ASIO. (I've sent a full report to E-MU).
>
> Anyway, I'd like to hear from others who are having nothing but the best experience with their audio interfaces (Mac, PC, firewire, or USB, preferably) and MaxMSP.
>
> For example, is it easy to switch DSP panel options, sample rates, signal vector sizes, start windows, instantiate MSP objects, etc., on the fly without glitches, distortion or crashes? Essentially, the E-MU ASIO driver on my PC has trouble with all of these, occasionally.
>
> Thanks in advance...
>
> Matt
>
>
Agreed. Good drivers, plus RME gear simply has the lowest latencies
out there--essential for realtime processing.
.e
On Oct 6, 2006, at 10:49 AM, f.e wrote:
> RME (all)
>
> matt wrote:
>> I'm not entirely happy with my E-MU 1616m's driver performance
>> (ASIO) on XP Pro while using MaxMSP. I experience some anomalies
>> such as distorted audio when the MSP engine is interrupted,
>> initialized, etc., and loss of audio and/or MIDI output when using
>> sync~ (unless I switch to ASIO4ALL and back to E-MU ASIO, then it
>> works). Cycling74 is unable to confirm this behavior with their
>> own testbeds and I don't experience these anomalies with
>> Directsound, MME, WDM, or ASIO4ALL drivers so it leads me to
>> believe the problem is with E-MU ASIO. (I've sent a full report to
>> E-MU).
>>
>> Anyway, I'd like to hear from others who are having nothing but
>> the best experience with their audio interfaces (Mac, PC,
>> firewire, or USB, preferably) and MaxMSP.
>> For example, is it easy to switch DSP panel options, sample rates,
>> signal vector sizes, start windows, instantiate MSP objects, etc.,
>> on the fly without glitches, distortion or crashes? Essentially,
>> the E-MU ASIO driver on my PC has trouble with all of these,
>> occasionally.
>>
>> Thanks in advance...
>>
>>
>>
How about the MOTU Traveler? Anyone using one and having a flawless experience with MaxMSP?
Jesus christ! Don't buy anything MOTU for XP. I am voting for RME too. Get a fireface, multiface, or digiface. I can not recommend MAudio or EMU either from my experiences with cards on XP.
Right now I am using a digiface on two computers. Works great and is expandable to accomodate 3 HDSP devices should you need more I/O plus the Totalmix DSP mixer is controllable via midi meaning you can build something in Max to gain access to the onboard DSP of the card.
Oh, and stay away from ASIO4ALL. You'll get a lot less bang per buck using that driver. I think the software emulates some functions that would natively be done using a processor on the card so you have cpu hits and spikes when using it, plus you probably won't do better than 512 samples as a buffer size from what I've tested. 256 worked horribly for me.
Oh, I'm definitely not using ASIO4ALL. I installed it to troubleshoot the driver issues I was having with the E-MU ASIO driver. Switching to ASIO4ALL and back to the E-MU ASIO drivers 'fixes' the issue I have with sync~. Switching to Directsound or MME drivers does not have that effect even though sync~ works with them. Weird! But yeah, I know, ASIO4ALL is essentially a wrapper for WDM, I believe.
Haha, MOTU's XP driver reputation is hard to live down...
Thanks for the recommendations! Keep the anecdotes, etc., coming.
Has anyone had experience with Focusrite's Saffire drivers on either Mac or PC with MaxMSP?
Could any MOTU users chime in about their experiences with MaxMSP? thanks!
mill.mill@c2i.net a écrit :
>> Um, and would any MOTU users like to chime in about their experiences
>> with MaxMSP? thanks!
> hi
> i have one 828 + one 828 mkII that i mostly use with max/msp and i
> never had any trouble at all
> with them as long as u update the drivers etc.
>
> never had a chrash/faulure during five years live experience
>
> best
>
> håkon
I never had problem with MOTU
I own a traveler, I worked a lot with a 828MKII, I tested an Ultralight
and worked once with a PCI one (don't remember the number)
no surprises !
(with the traveler I work on Mac Os X and XP without problems)
Léo
On 10 oct. 06, at 15:01, matt wrote:
> Um, and would any MOTU users like to chime in about their experiences
> with MaxMSP? thanks!
No problems so far with a 828, a 2408, a 2408mk2 and a 1296 (using
pci324 and 424), under Mac OS 8.6 -> X.4.8
But these are all old interfaces...
With the ultralite, I had bad sound with gizmo~ and a too short (but
not that short) vector size. As I discovered this just before a
rehearsal, I just changed the vector size and never investigate further
(I definitively should!!) but it may not be a motu problem.
_____________________________
Patrick Delges
Centre de Recherches et de Formation Musicales de Wallonie asbl
http://users.skynet.be/crfmw/max
i'm using focusrite's saffire with power book g4. still have not
faced any serious problems. everything works fine - max/msp, radial,
reaktor, melodine, live etc.
On Oct 10, 2006, at 4:34 AM, matt wrote:
>
> Has anyone had experience with Focusrite's Saffire drivers on
> either Mac or PC with MaxMSP?
>
>
Quote: cebec wrote on Tue, 10 October 2006 15:01
----------------------------------------------------
> Could any MOTU users chime in about their experiences with MaxMSP? thanks!
----------------------------------------------------
Well, my MOTU 828mk1 just died a week ago. Many years of service, true, but I hadn't expected it to go out that way...
Looks nice. Looks like overkill for my purposes, though. I don't think I can afford it, either.
I guess Apogee are 'beyond' publishing technical specs! Don't know where I'd even audition something like that and in a proper environment. Something with half the I/O at half the price would probably appeal, though. Wonder what those drivers are like, too.
Oh, was disappointed to discover that the Fireface 400 and 800 have slightly different A/D/A measurements. Again, something with half the I/O of the 800 with the same A/D/A would be much more appealing than either model currently.
A bit caught up on specific technical specifications at the moment. Find it hard to believe that sound quality and measurements could get any better than the E-MU and it's hard to take a 2x more expensive (at least) leap of faith to another interface, though I'm sure the driver stability and quality alone would be worth it...
> Oh, was disappointed to discover that the Fireface 400 and 800 have
> slightly different A/D/A measurements. Again, something with half the
> I/O of the 800 with the same A/D/A would be much more appealing than
> either model currently.
RME's lead designer had something interesting to say about this at some
point in the last two months.... check the RME news server:
news.x-networks.de port 119
If memory serves - and it might not, since I'm not too interested in
interfaces other than the one I have - the point was that with those
specs, the differences are not very significant.
And feel free to ask questions.
matt wrote:
> A bit caught up on specific technical specifications at the moment.
> Find it hard to believe that sound quality and measurements could get
> any better than the E-MU and it's hard to take a 2x more expensive
> (at least) leap of faith to another interface, though I'm sure the
> driver stability and quality alone would be worth it...
At the high end, measurements will be the same, but listening experience
will be different. And it might be also a matter of "taste".
It could even be that the measurements are worse, but the sound quality
is better...
If you like the size of the fireface 400 and can afford it, go for it,
it is high end...
(Its the same league as Apogee, but a different taste ;-)
Stefan
--
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com
How about Digidesign?
I'm going to get a Macbook Pro and was thinking of getting Pro Tools - hence requires a digidesign soundcard.
Otherwise I'd thought RME fireface and use Logic.
Does anyone have any experience of the Pro Tools soundcards?
> Does anyone have any experience of the Pro Tools soundcards?
Stay away from it. Badly design drivers, expensive and unreliable.
Go for MOTU or RME, with Nuendo, Logic or Digital Performer.
pa
Sure. That makes it less portable.
My thinking on Pro Tools is that the plugins are very good quality and it would be cool to be doing recording in Pro Tools as I'd like to mix in Pro Tools. You can always run the Logic front end as well.
Soundcard-wise it seems the RME is very highly rated. How about Digidesign's?
to add to discent: digidesign is evil. they will screw you over at
least once. my original mbox is totally useless with out paying them
something like 200 bucks for just the driver. My recording facility
has been protools TDM based for 6 years now. its been utter hell. the
hardware aspect is nice but their business practices are worse.
Digi believes in the trickle down theory. They pee, and it trickes
down on the user.
-matt
We run two recording studios with Pro Tools HD3|Accel systems (192I/O interfaces) and a lot of plug-ins, outboard gear, etc. We've also got quite a few workstations set up with MBox units. I have no complaints on sound quality on the HD systems; the MBoxes are okay at best. However, I do agree with the earlier posters that Digidesign are far from friendly about upgrades, etc. Keeping the studios up to date is expensive and trying. We don't run Max/MSP on these systems, so I can't speak to that issue.
In another lab, we run Max/MSP and Logic through a MOTU 2408MkIII. It works all right, but we keep getting weird glitches with the interface. I can't really recommend it based on our experience to date.
For portable stuff and my own work, I use a Metric Halo 2882DSP connected to my PowerBook running Max/MSP/Jitter. It's excellent. I've never had the slightest problem with it. It's kind of pricey, but it's been worth it so far, in terms of sound quality and ease of use.
EH
Unfortunately, almost everybody experienced Digi shit. Question is more
: what you plan to do with ? Because it's ok for PT, but pretty useless
for all the other audio apps (driver is crappy).
f.e
f.e chanfrault | aka | personal computer music
> >>>>>> http://www.personal-computer-music.com
> >>>>>> |sublime music for a desperate people|
Andrew Robertson wrote:
> How about Digidesign?
>
> I'm going to get a Macbook Pro and was thinking of getting Pro Tools - hence requires a digidesign soundcard.
>
> Otherwise I'd thought RME fireface and use Logic.
>
> Does anyone have any experience of the Pro Tools soundcards?
>
>
I like my EMU1212m's convertors and config interface. Inputs and outputs are fine, but behaves strange with max/msp. Buzzing audio when audio is initialised within max. You have to reset it. MAx is the only software I'm having problem btw. But I'll be going for a mobile system so will buy stg external.
>Unfortunately, almost everybody experienced Digi shit. Question is
>more : what you plan to do with ? Because it's ok for PT, but pretty
>useless for all the other audio apps (driver is crappy).
>
the digi interfaces are a "dongle" for using proTools (you can not
use oen without digi hardware)
ok, i used soem of them with max:
the 001 is kind of OK (but runs only on older hardware - at least in mac world)
the 002 is not as good - well, it is "alright" - i used it live with
max, when i needed a FW card with 3 mic inputs, but it is not
soemthing i would recommend
the (original) MBox is nothing... i played projects in which other
people used them... ok, it _can_ work, but as soon as possible i was
replacing those with anything else - actually only the emi 6/2 (or
was it 2/6 ??) were worse, with more craks than the mbox.
then of course if you want protools that's the only way to go - and
you can use it with maxmsp.
but it's crap - trying to record via adat from a 002 to a 001 never
worked (with the digi hot line helping me !!!) - unless i run them
bBOTH as slaves (of what???) at which point 5 out of the 8 channels
worked!!!
best
kasper
--
Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer
http://www.sleazeArt.com
voila, two coins from me.
I am using the Apogee Ensemble in the studio since sometime.. very
nice, superb sounding machine.. no problems with maxmsp (though it
works just on OSX, and counting the latest driver updates)
So it is a good alternative to Digidesign hardware and cheaper,
though more expensive than the RME. Actually waiting for Fireface400
to use at the concert venue.
On Oct 17, 2006, at 1:16 PM, Kasper T Toeplitz wrote:
>> Unfortunately, almost everybody experienced Digi shit. Question is
>> more : what you plan to do with ? Because it's ok for PT, but
>> pretty useless for all the other audio apps (driver is crappy).
>>
>
>
> the digi interfaces are a "dongle" for using proTools (you can not
> use oen without digi hardware)
>
> ok, i used soem of them with max:
>
> the 001 is kind of OK (but runs only on older hardware - at least
> in mac world)
> the 002 is not as good - well, it is "alright" - i used it live
> with max, when i needed a FW card with 3 mic inputs, but it is not
> soemthing i would recommend
> the (original) MBox is nothing... i played projects in which other
> people used them... ok, it _can_ work, but as soon as possible i
> was replacing those with anything else - actually only the emi 6/2
> (or was it 2/6 ??) were worse, with more craks than the mbox.
>
> then of course if you want protools that's the only way to go - and
> you can use it with maxmsp.
>
> but it's crap - trying to record via adat from a 002 to a 001 never
> worked (with the digi hot line helping me !!!) - unless i run them
> bBOTH as slaves (of what???) at which point 5 out of the 8 channels
> worked!!!
>
> best
>
> kasper
> --
> Kasper T. Toeplitz
> noise, composition, bass, computer
> http://www.sleazeArt.com
>
>
FWIW, I replaced my (original) MBox with an M-Audio FW
410, because I had so much trouble with the MBox, and
/so far/ it seems to be behaving pretty well.
So if you do need Pro Tools, the M-Powered versions
are an option, and it might even be a better one than
using Digi's own hardware (though again, I will stress
that I've only had the thing a few months).
My experiences with Digi hardware seem to have been
much like everyone else's - unless you have everything
configured exactly as instructed by the
Digi-dictators, you are asking for trouble. And don't
be surprised if you're left with an 'unsupported'
product a couple of OS updates later,
cheers
Roger
--- Kasper T Toeplitz wrote:
> >Unfortunately, almost everybody experienced Digi
> shit. Question is
> >more : what you plan to do with ? Because it's ok
> for PT, but pretty
> >useless for all the other audio apps (driver is
> crappy).
> >
>
I had the exact same problems and more with an E-MU 1820m, first, then a 1616m. I had problems specifically with Max/MSP and Reaktor. With Max, I also got audio initialization noise and some objects behaved strangely. I sold the 1616m and am expecting a Fireface this week. The E-MU drivers, imo, could be much much better.
Hi! Comrades,
I have purchase new Mac Book pro 2.0 is it better to install
the old Max/MSP version 4.5.7 then 4.6.2 or directly only install the newest
version 4.6.2 better?
Thanks
Shing-kwei
-----Original Message-----
From: maxmsp-bounces@cycling74.com [mailto:maxmsp-bounces@cycling74.com] On
Behalf Of matt
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 9:00 PM
Subject: [maxmsp] Re: OT: Audio interfaces for MaxMSP
I had the exact same problems and more with an E-MU 1820m, first, then a
1616m. I had problems specifically with Max/MSP and Reaktor. With Max, I
also got audio initialization noise and some objects behaved strangely. I
sold the 1616m and am expecting a Fireface this week. The E-MU drivers, imo,
could be much much better.
On 17 Oct 2006, at 15:31, Shing-kwei wrote:
> I have purchase new Mac Book pro 2.0 is it better to install
> the old Max/MSP version 4.5.7 then 4.6.2 or directly only install
> the newest
> version 4.6.2 better?
I've never done incremental updates of MaxMSP - I always install
brand new versions (and then manually copy across bits of config from
old ones).
-- N.
nick rothwell -- composition, systems, performance -- http://
www.cassiel.com
e-mu audio cards are creative labs more or less.
this means crappy drivers, wouldn't touch them, i owned an audigy *shrudder*
it's what made me switch to mac really and it all started with asio4all, then i switched back to cl asio drivers and then it fucked up my system randomly, very strange.
Thank you very much, Nick.
I can't download the Max/MSP software, shows me :
POSIX error. Connection reset by peer,
How to fix?
Shing-kwei
-----Original Message-----
From: maxmsp-bounces@cycling74.com [mailto:maxmsp-bounces@cycling74.com] On
Behalf Of Nick Rothwell
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 10:41 PM
Subject: Re: [maxmsp] RE: new Macbook pro with Max/MSP 4.6
On 17 Oct 2006, at 15:31, Shing-kwei wrote:
> I have purchase new Mac Book pro 2.0 is it better to install
> the old Max/MSP version 4.5.7 then 4.6.2 or directly only install
> the newest
> version 4.6.2 better?
I've never done incremental updates of MaxMSP - I always install
brand new versions (and then manually copy across bits of config from
old ones).
-- N.
nick rothwell -- composition, systems, performance -- http://
www.cassiel.com
when needing multiple outs I've used a Presonus Firebox with Max/MSP...
for simple stereo in/out while on the road I use iMic's
both have never given me any trouble in Max/MSP but I haven't touched
ProTools in years...
will use Audacity until bigger guns are needed...
Merci!Francois
Shing-kwei
On 2006/10/17, at 下午 11:15, Jean-François Charles wrote:
> Why would you install 4.5.7?
>
>
> At 10/17/06 10:31 AM, you wrote :
>
>> Hi! Comrades,
>> I have purchase new Mac Book pro 2.0 is it better to install
>> the old Max/MSP version 4.5.7 then 4.6.2 or directly only install the
>> newest
>> version 4.6.2 better?
>> Thanks
>> Shing-kwei
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: maxmsp-bounces@cycling74.com
>> [mailto:maxmsp-bounces@cycling74.com] On
>> Behalf Of matt
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 9:00 PM
>> Subject: [maxmsp] Re: OT: Audio interfaces for MaxMSP
>>
>>
>> I had the exact same problems and more with an E-MU 1820m, first,
>> then a
>> 1616m. I had problems specifically with Max/MSP and Reaktor. With
>> Max, I
>> also got audio initialization noise and some objects behaved
>> strangely. I
>> sold the 1616m and am expecting a Fireface this week. The E-MU
>> drivers, imo,
>> could be much much better.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
曾興魁 Shing-kwei Tzeng
開南大學資訊傳播系教授
國立台灣師範大學音樂系教授
中華民國電腦音樂學會理事長
Professor of Department of Information Communication, Kai-nan University
Professor of Department of Music, National Taiwan Normal University
Chairman of Association of Computer Music, Taiwan RC.
Andrew Robertson wrote:
> Otherwise I'd thought RME fireface and use Logic.
>
> Does anyone have any experience of the Pro Tools soundcards?
Digi drivers suck always. It seems the M-Audio drivers got worse after
Digi bought M-Audio. Its worth only for the ProTools software, till now
there is no real competition. But they want you to force to buy an
additional interface (For a reason I don't know).
You might get better along with M-Audio and ProTools M-Powered. But I
have no experience with those...
In terms of pure sound quality and reliability RME is much more
interesting...
If you are happy with Logic, it seems a better longterm investment...
Stefan
--
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com
Andrew Robertson wrote:
> My thinking on Pro Tools is that the plugins are very good quality
> and it would be cool to be doing recording in Pro Tools as I'd like
> to mix in Pro Tools. You can always run the Logic front end as well.
But only the HD system ones. That is a very pricey option.
> Soundcard-wise it seems the RME is very highly rated. How about
> Digidesign's?
Not bad, but one league below RME, I consider RME the same league as
Apogee...
And if you can afford a Digi HD system, just add a fireface 800 to the
set, its only 5% more... ;-)
Stefan
--
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com
jln wrote:
> Does anyone know if one can use multi interface with ProTools M- Powered
> ? There are really cheap second hand M-Audio interface out there...
Yes, but not at the same time with ProTools and you have to check,
M-powered is not supportet with all M-audio interfaces as far as I know...
Stefan
--
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com
Dear all
I have this burning question on my lips:
Did someone did an AB test between RME's firewire stuff and MOTU's.
I have done one between MOTU and M-Mox and Firebox and Apogee, but
not with RME. Obviously, the same generation should be compared, like
Fireface800 and 828mk2...
Comments are welcome.
pa
>
>Did someone did an AB test between RME's firewire stuff and MOTU's.
>I have done one between MOTU and M-Mox and Firebox and Apogee, but
>not with RME. Obviously, the same generation should be compared,
>like Fireface800 and 828mk2...
>
not a direct AB test, but I use (since years) teh RME multiface(s) (I
have 2 of them) - mostly on Pbooks, which means with the card bus
(PCMCIA) and i have bought, almost 2 years ago (when they just came
out) a 828mk2
I used both with maxmsp patches - maybe not the SAME patch, but....
___I had a lot of trouble connecting the MOTU by adat to a digi 001
(no problems with RME) and the MOTU, out of nowhere, after 2 weeks or
so of rehearsals (means the same patch, same config) just FROZE,
_twice_ on stage. Not a patch crash, just the sound card.
I am pretty sure (99% ?) it was not patches fault, and for sure, even
if I sometimes did have problems with the RME, it never was on that
level
i quickly sold the MOTU, and am very skeptical about their products
since then (even if the new 1/2 rack "lite" seems very tempting....)
best
kasper
--
Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer
http://www.sleazeArt.com
Weird. My experiences are the opposite. My MOTU 828 mk2 was the only
interface that worked without a hitch during my last gruelling
theatre tour (using Max).
All other interfaces would glitch, fart, dropout or plain fail
completely. Among the stuff I used: Digi 002R(horrible uncooperative
drivers) /Motu Traveler(Fwiet/Click)/RME Multiface(MIDI not usable at
all/lots of glitches)
The only other interface that works everytime with Max: the MH ULN-2.
Best,
Zip Boterbloem
Media Mechanics
Zwaluwstraat 54
2025 VR Haarlem
The Netherlands
+31627014758
zip@knoware.nl
Op 20-okt-2006, om 13:24 heeft Kasper T Toeplitz het volgende
geschreven:
>>
>> Did someone did an AB test between RME's firewire stuff and MOTU's.
>> I have done one between MOTU and M-Mox and Firebox and Apogee, but
>> not with RME. Obviously, the same generation should be compared,
>> like Fireface800 and 828mk2...
>>
>
>
> not a direct AB test, but I use (since years) teh RME multiface(s)
> (I have 2 of them) - mostly on Pbooks, which means with the card
> bus (PCMCIA) and i have bought, almost 2 years ago (when they just
> came out) a 828mk2
>
> I used both with maxmsp patches - maybe not the SAME patch, but....
>
> ___I had a lot of trouble connecting the MOTU by adat to a digi 001
> (no problems with RME) and the MOTU, out of nowhere, after 2 weeks
> or so of rehearsals (means the same patch, same config) just FROZE,
> _twice_ on stage. Not a patch crash, just the sound card.
>
> I am pretty sure (99% ?) it was not patches fault, and for sure,
> even if I sometimes did have problems with the RME, it never was on
> that level
>
> i quickly sold the MOTU, and am very skeptical about their products
> since then (even if the new 1/2 rack "lite" seems very tempting....)
>
>
> best
>
> kasper
> --
> Kasper T. Toeplitz
> noise, composition, bass, computer
> http://www.sleazeArt.com
>
>
Dear Kasper and all
I was not talking about reliability, I hhave toured extensively with
motus without any problem for 5 years now. It is more about the
sound quality of the converters I was inquiering.
Any comparison of sound to share?
pa
>Dear Kasper and all
>
>I was not talking about reliability, I hhave toured extensively with
>motus without any problem for 5 years now. It is more about the
>sound quality of the converters I was inquiering.
>
>Any comparison of sound to share?
well, I like the sound of my RMEs and did not like very much the
no-sound-at-all (random) option of the MOTU ;-)
kasper
On 20 Oct 2006, at 12:53, Zip Boterbloem wrote:
> Weird. My experiences are the opposite. My MOTU 828 mk2 was the
> only interface that worked without a hitch during my last gruelling
> theatre tour (using Max).
I had some problems with an 828 Mk 1 just stopping completely, but
that was a long time ago, and on a specific hardware setup (early
iMacs), and I have used it without problem since.
>
> All other interfaces would glitch, fart, dropout or plain fail
> completely. Among the stuff I used: Digi 002R(horrible
> uncooperative drivers) /Motu Traveler(Fwiet/Click)/RME Multiface
> (MIDI not usable at all/lots of glitches)
This was an issue with certain models - I had two Tibooks - one was
fine, but the other produced glitches.
In general I have found multiface and digiface excellent - no
problems, except that they seem particularly sensitive to power
supply fluctuations - a poor power source can cause them (not the
program) to hang - needs powering down the computer - then power off
and restart interface - then power up computer.
I have had no problems at all with Fireface 800 - on several computers.
Best
L
>
> The only other interface that works everytime with Max: the MH ULN-2.
Lawrence Casserley - lawrence@lcasserley.co.uk
Lawrence Electronic Operations - www.lcasserley.co.uk
Colourscape Music Festivals - www.colourscape.org.uk
Hi,
I have used from time to time, during the last three years, a Motu 828MkII,
a Traveler, and a FireFace 800.
The converters and overall performance of RME FF800 are quite better than
Motu's. Traveler is good anyway, but nothing compared to FF800.
If you test these audiocard with a good condenser microphone and in a good
listening environment (such as a damped room with Genelec monitors), you'll
have no doubt as which is the best one.
Two years ago, after an accurate testing of those audiocard I was using, I
decided to buy a FF800 for my studio and live work. Now I am happy and fully
satisfied with it.
Bye
Carlo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pierre Alexandre Tremblay"
To:
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: [maxmsp] Re: OT: Audio interfaces for MaxMSP
> Dear all
>
> I have this burning question on my lips:
>
> Did someone did an AB test between RME's firewire stuff and MOTU's. I
> have done one between MOTU and M-Mox and Firebox and Apogee, but not with
> RME. Obviously, the same generation should be compared, like Fireface800
> and 828mk2...
>
> Comments are welcome.
>
> pa
curious, are you saying that you liked the Fireface800 best since you
bought one?
also, would you say the FF800 converters are better than the RME?
On Oct 20, 2006, at 11:07 AM, Carlo Laurenzi wrote:
> If you test these audiocard with a good condenser microphone and in
> a good listening environment (such as a damped room with Genelec
> monitors), you'll have no doubt as which is the best one.
> Two years ago, after an accurate testing of those audiocard I was
> using, I decided to buy a FF800 for my studio and live work. Now I
> am happy and fully satisfied with it.
this has turned into a very useful thread... hopefully anyone searching for recommendations in the future will find it.
and some of this testimony has me even more excited to receive my FF800, today.
i'll be sure to report my experiences when i've had the chance to use the FF800 with my XP machine and my MacTel machine.
I have the FF800, the MH ULN-2, the Traveler and the 828 mk2.
According to me, priority #1 for live use is reliability and maybe
short latency. Here the 828 wins hands down, or the ULN-2 if 2 in/out
is sufficient. Nobody in the audience will hear the difference
between the 828 and a Prism or a FF800. Heck, they will love the
quality of the built-in audio of your PowerBook.
In the studio, priorities are sound quality and, in my case, short
latencies. The RME sounds a lot better than the Motu stuff, but the
RME drivers will start to glitch and crackle much sooner than the
Motu's when using small i/O buffers and non-trivial processor loads.
The MH ULN-2 sounds great, and will work fine with small buffers. I
wonder what their 2882 is like. That's more or less the only
interface I haven't thoroughly tested on the road and in the studio.
My 2c,
Zip
For the studio
Zip Boterbloem
Media Mechanics
Zwaluwstraat 54
2025 VR Haarlem
The Netherlands
+31627014758
zip@knoware.nl
Op 20-okt-2006, om 20:15 heeft Kim Cascone het volgende geschreven:
> curious, are you saying that you liked the Fireface800 best since
> you bought one?
> also, would you say the FF800 converters are better than the RME?
>
> On Oct 20, 2006, at 11:07 AM, Carlo Laurenzi wrote:
>
>> If you test these audiocard with a good condenser microphone and
>> in a good listening environment (such as a damped room with
>> Genelec monitors), you'll have no doubt as which is the best one.
>> Two years ago, after an accurate testing of those audiocard I was
>> using, I decided to buy a FF800 for my studio and live work. Now I
>> am happy and fully satisfied with it.
>
>
Oh. I forgot to mention. Strictly Mac here. RME has a good reputation
in the PC world.
> I have the FF800, the MH ULN-2, the Traveler and the 828 mk2.
>
> According to me, priority #1 for live use is reliability and maybe
> short latency. Here the 828 wins hands down, or the ULN-2 if 2 in/
> out is sufficient. Nobody in the audience will hear the difference
> between the 828 and a Prism or a FF800. Heck, they will love the
> quality of the built-in audio of your PowerBook.
>
> In the studio, priorities are sound quality and, in my case, short
> latencies. The RME sounds a lot better than the Motu stuff, but the
> RME drivers will start to glitch and crackle much sooner than the
> Motu's when using small i/O buffers and non-trivial processor loads.
>
> The MH ULN-2 sounds great, and will work fine with small buffers. I
> wonder what their 2882 is like. That's more or less the only
> interface I haven't thoroughly tested on the road and in the studio.
>
> My 2c,
>
> Zip
>
> For the studio
> Zip Boterbloem
> Media Mechanics
> Zwaluwstraat 54
> 2025 VR Haarlem
> The Netherlands
> +31627014758
> zip@knoware.nl
>
>
>
> Op 20-okt-2006, om 20:15 heeft Kim Cascone het volgende geschreven:
>
>> curious, are you saying that you liked the Fireface800 best since
>> you bought one?
>> also, would you say the FF800 converters are better than the RME?
>>
>> On Oct 20, 2006, at 11:07 AM, Carlo Laurenzi wrote:
>>
>>> If you test these audiocard with a good condenser microphone and
>>> in a good listening environment (such as a damped room with
>>> Genelec monitors), you'll have no doubt as which is the best one.
>>> Two years ago, after an accurate testing of those audiocard I was
>>> using, I decided to buy a FF800 for my studio and live work. Now
>>> I am happy and fully satisfied with it.
>>
>
If you're on a PC, get RME. If you're on a Mac, get MOTU. End story =D
I'm saying that after one year during which I had been using different audiocards (Rme Fireface 800, Motu 828MkII and traveler - I am a student in computer music and have this stuff in class), I decided to buy an audio interface for myself. For this purpose I made some tests and research which definitely convinced me that the best buy was RME FireFace800. So, I liked the fireface after one year of work with it, and I liked much more since when I bought one for myself.
I don't understand your 2nd question: Rme and Fireface 800 are the same thing.
Carlo
----- Original Message -----
From: Kim Cascone
To: maxmsp@cycling74.com
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: [maxmsp] Re: OT: Audio interfaces for MaxMSP
curious, are you saying that you liked the Fireface800 best since you bought one?
also, would you say the FF800 converters are better than the RME?
On Oct 20, 2006, at 11:07 AM, Carlo Laurenzi wrote:
If you test these audiocard with a good condenser microphone and in a good listening environment (such as a damped room with Genelec monitors), you'll have no doubt as which is the best one.
Two years ago, after an accurate testing of those audiocard I was using, I decided to buy a FF800 for my studio and live work. Now I am happy and fully satisfied with it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sorry I was confusing the FireFACE by RME with the FirePOD by Presonus
On Oct 21, 2006, at 11:52 AM, Carlo Laurenzi wrote:
> RME FireFace800.
I've had a few days with the Fireface 800 and Max/MSP 4.6.2 on a Windows XP Pro system with an Adaptec FireConnect 4300 PCI/1394a adapter card.
Stability and latency are much improved over the E-MU 1820m and 1616m and the sound quality is noticeably better, too. For example, I can change sample rates and latency on the fly without having to 'reset' the audio engine. Also, I haven't had any crashes that result in the max.exe process remaining running and being un'kill'able. Both occurred frequently with the latest E-MU drivers.
I'm very happy so far. I'll be testing the FF800 with Max/MSP on a MacBook tonight and I hope/expect similar good results.
There're no RMAA test results for the FF800 available so I might do that for those who are interested in that sort of thing.
If anyone wants me to run a specific Max/MSP-related test, however, feel free to ask or contact me.
I'm interested in CPU usage with the Fireface 800, as a number of people
have commented on good performance with Max/MSP and the FF800, but just
yesterday I was trialling a patch the runs fine with built-in audio under
Max/MSP 4.5.7 on an iBook G4 1GHz, but crawled when I switched to a FF800.
CPU usage was way up, and while everything still got processed, the lag made
the patch unusable. I'm assuming that there are some parameters I could
tweak to improve this (I/O vector size or Signal vector size??) - but
shifting those up to 1024 made no apparent difference in performance.
The same patch on a MacBookPro performed fine with the FF800.
This was my first trial of using a FF800, so I'm curious if others have had
similar experiences. I'm considering going down the Fireface patch (maybe
only a 400 though) but I'd want to be able to use it with both my old G4
iBook as well as the new MacBookPro.
Has anyone seen seen this kind of behaviour before?
On 10/24/06, matt wrote:
>
>
>
> I'm very happy so far. I'll be testing the FF800 with Max/MSP on a MacBook
> tonight and I hope/expect similar good results.
>
> If anyone wants me to run a specific Max/MSP-related test, however, feel
> free to ask or contact me.
>
>
Hello,
What about the MOTU 896HD? I haven't seen anyone mention it here, and it doesn't seem to come up in the archives. Any experience pro or con?
cheers, m
One thing to consider: you're comparing a 28 input/26 output
interface with a 2 in/out. You can switch off the ADAT ports when not
in use. This might help. In the FF control panel, bottom left.
Best,
Zip Boterbloem
Media Mechanics
Zwaluwstraat 54
2025 VR Haarlem
The Netherlands
+31627014758
zip@knoware.nl
Op 24-okt-2006, om 16:40 heeft Mark Pedersen het volgende geschreven:
> I'm interested in CPU usage with the Fireface 800, as a number of
> people have commented on good performance with Max/MSP and the
> FF800, but just yesterday I was trialling a patch the runs fine
> with built-in audio under Max/MSP 4.5.7 on an iBook G4 1GHz, but
> crawled when I switched to a FF800. CPU usage was way up, and
> while everything still got processed, the lag made the patch
> unusable. I'm assuming that there are some parameters I could
> tweak to improve this (I/O vector size or Signal vector size??) -
> but shifting those up to 1024 made no apparent difference in
> performance.
>
> The same patch on a MacBookPro performed fine with the FF800.
>
> This was my first trial of using a FF800, so I'm curious if others
> have had similar experiences. I'm considering going down the
> Fireface patch (maybe only a 400 though) but I'd want to be able to
> use it with both my old G4 iBook as well as the new MacBookPro.
>
> Has anyone seen seen this kind of behaviour before?
>
> On 10/24/06, matt wrote:
>
>
> I'm very happy so far. I'll be testing the FF800 with Max/MSP on a
> MacBook tonight and I hope/expect similar good results.
>
> If anyone wants me to run a specific Max/MSP-related test, however,
> feel free to ask or contact me.
>
>
Hi, I,ve been working with MaxMsp and Fireface 800 since 2004. I had a similar problem when running a complex patch I had made at the time: CPU over 100% and audio buffer out of sync (= continuous glitching). As it happened to you, my patch worked well with the integrated audio but showed bad behaviour when using FF800.
My computer is a Pc, an Athlon 3200+ (64bit) with 1Gb ram and quality HD 7200 rpm. To me, there are two main causes for the behaviour you describe.
First, you have to consider that the integrated audio of a computer is much better "integrated" in the motherboard than the audio processed through a firewire controller, which has an unavoidable small latency (though it seems that new macs have now very good integration of firewire controller).
Second, with Max it's easy to reach up to 100% cpu load when building complex patches, especially when using fft and spectral processing, or any kind of buffer readers.
A big amount of available ram is a first solution to get max working with these power-consuming patches. Anyway it's important to be aware of and pay attention to some bad written externals bundled with max, whose behaviour might sometimes compromise the stability of a patch. (= max/msp is not a very good software. Now that the community of max users has increased so much, the software should be completely rewritten)
Anyway, regarding Fireface800 and Max, I can tell you my experience. I used several audio interfaces with max, but FF800 showed the best results in handling digital audio data. This means that if a patch didn't work on my computer and the FF800, didn't work either with Motu 828MkII or Traveler, but with the FF I could set a smaller buffer size, compared to the other cards.
So the CPU usage with the FF800 and Max it's the best you can get from a computer.
Any problem of CPU usage, to tell the truth, has its main cause in the computer itself and not in the audiocard (assuming that your audio card isn't broken, but I don't think it is).
Reducing the bandwith usage of the FF can help, but I don't believe that can solve the problem. I always do it anyway.
Bye
Carlo
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Pedersen
To: maxmsp@cycling74.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [maxmsp] Re: OT: Audio interfaces for MaxMSP
I'm interested in CPU usage with the Fireface 800, as a number of people have commented on good performance with Max/MSP and the FF800, but just yesterday I was trialling a patch the runs fine with built-in audio under Max/MSP 4.5.7 on an iBook G4 1GHz, but crawled when I switched to a FF800. CPU usage was way up, and while everything still got processed, the lag made the patch unusable. I'm assuming that there are some parameters I could tweak to improve this (I/O vector size or Signal vector size??) - but shifting those up to 1024 made no apparent difference in performance.
The same patch on a MacBookPro performed fine with the FF800.
This was my first trial of using a FF800, so I'm curious if others have had similar experiences. I'm considering going down the Fireface patch (maybe only a 400 though) but I'd want to be able to use it with both my old G4 iBook as well as the new MacBookPro.
Has anyone seen seen this kind of behaviour before?
On 10/24/06, matt wrote:
I'm very happy so far. I'll be testing the FF800 with Max/MSP on a MacBook tonight and I hope/expect similar good results.
If anyone wants me to run a specific Max/MSP-related test, however, feel free to ask or contact me.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hi list, has anyone worked with the link.firewire from Tapco?
i got a good offer for it. i am on windows xp.
http://www.tapcoworld.com/products/linkfw/index.html
On Oct 24, 2006 7:57 PM, Carlo Laurenzi wrote:
> Hi, I,ve been working with MaxMsp and Fireface 800 since 2004. I had a
> similar problem when running a complex patch I had made at the time: CPU
> over 100% and audio buffer out of sync (= continuous glitching). As it
> happened to you, my patch worked well with the integrated audio but showed
> bad behaviour when using FF800.
> My computer is a Pc, an Athlon 3200+ (64bit) with 1Gb ram and quality HD
> 7200 rpm. To me, there are two main causes for the behaviour you describe.
> First, you have to consider that the integrated audio of a computer is
> much better "integrated" in the motherboard than the audio processed through
> a firewire controller, which has an unavoidable small latency (though it
> seems that new macs have now very good integration of firewire controller).
> Second, with Max it's easy to reach up to 100% cpu load when building
> complex patches, especially when using fft and spectral processing, or any
> kind of buffer readers.
> A big amount of available ram is a first solution to get max working with
> these power-consuming patches. Anyway it's important to be aware of and pay
> attention to some bad written externals bundled with max, whose behaviour
> might sometimes compromise the stability of a patch. (= max/msp is not a
> very good software. Now that the community of max users has increased so
> much, the software should be completely rewritten)
> Anyway, regarding Fireface800 and Max, I can tell you my experience. I
> used several audio interfaces with max, but FF800 showed the best results in
> handling digital audio data. This means that if a patch didn't work on my
> computer and the FF800, didn't work either with Motu 828MkII or Traveler,
> but with the FF I could set a smaller buffer size, compared to the other
> cards.
> So the CPU usage with the FF800 and Max it's the best you can get from a
> computer.
> Any problem of CPU usage, to tell the truth, has its main cause in the
> computer itself and not in the audiocard (assuming that your audio card
> isn't broken, but I don't think it is).
> Reducing the bandwith usage of the FF can help, but I don't believe that
> can solve the problem. I always do it anyway.
> Bye
>
> Carlo
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Mark Pedersen
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 24, 2006 4:40 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [maxmsp] Re: OT: Audio interfaces for MaxMSP
>
> I'm interested in CPU usage with the Fireface 800, as a number of people
> have commented on good performance with Max/MSP and the FF800, but just
> yesterday I was trialling a patch the runs fine with built-in audio under
> Max/MSP 4.5.7 on an iBook G4 1GHz, but crawled when I switched to a
> FF800. CPU usage was way up, and while everything still got processed, the
> lag made the patch unusable. I'm assuming that there are some parameters I
> could tweak to improve this (I/O vector size or Signal vector size??) - but
> shifting those up to 1024 made no apparent difference in performance.
>
> The same patch on a MacBookPro performed fine with the FF800.
>
> This was my first trial of using a FF800, so I'm curious if others have
> had similar experiences. I'm considering going down the Fireface patch
> (maybe only a 400 though) but I'd want to be able to use it with both my old
> G4 iBook as well as the new MacBookPro.
>
> Has anyone seen seen this kind of behaviour before?
>
> On 10/24/06, matt wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm very happy so far. I'll be testing the FF800 with Max/MSP on a
> > MacBook tonight and I hope/expect similar good results.
> >
> > If anyone wants me to run a specific Max/MSP-related test, however, feel
> > free to ask or contact me.
> >
> >
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>