polyphonic key pressure of Push via Live Object Model (ControlSurface)
Hi there,
I get values from the note pads of Push 2 just fine for pad pressed (initial velocity) and pad released (velocity of 0), via the X_Clip_Y_Button named controls of Push 2 as ControlSurface via the LOM.
I use the grab_control and get_control functions of the ControlSurface for this.
Using the setup button on Push 2 Hardware and setting Pressure to Poly, I expected to receive also the the "polyphonic key pressure" values of each note pad - but I do not, still only values for "pad pressed" and "pad release" (which means only note-on and note-off).
Do I miss something or is it not possible to get polyphonic key pressure from Push 2 via the Live Object Model?
See also : https://github.com/Ableton/push-interface/blob/master/doc/AbletonPush2MIDIDisplayInterface.asc#Aftertouch.
Has anybody already access to the Live 12 beta and tried out, if the behavior has changed?
As Push 3 has fully MPE enabled note pads, it would make more than sense that - at least with Live 12 - all these MPE data (pressure, glide aka per note pitch bend, slide) would also be accessible to M4L devices via the Live Object Model.
I really hope that Cycling 74 & Ableton will make this possible ... then it will be possible to create custom Push Layouts for MPE instruments (native Ableton instruments or VST & AU) and hence new approaches to the play an instrument, which would be awesome and I am waiting for so long to make it possible.
cheers
You're not missing anything. The only way I was able to get Poly Pressure out of Push 2 was using lmh_m4l_midi package by sigabort: https://sigabort.co/m4l_midi.html
I also hope for a supported/native way to do this in Live.
Hi Tyler,
I took look at the website of M4L-Midi, sounds interessting - thanks for the hint.
Do I have to put Push 2 in "user mode" in order to use M4L-Midi?
If not and everything is done by MIDI messages in "normal mode", there still is the need to switch between the Ableton default Push layout and the custom Push layout implemented via M4L-Midi, which one would normally trigger when the "selected track" changes.
Observing the selected track is easy via Live Objec Model, but how does a roll back to the custom Push layout via MIDI messages (of M4L-Midi) perform - is there a significant latency?
Another barrier that comes to my mind is "push layout state managment", which is "for free" by using the LOM and grab & release of ControlSurface controls.
Meaning if I create a custom Push layout and change the colors of the LEDs, switching to another track I have to recall the "Ableton default Push layout" and all the colors.
Which means I have to somehow keep track of the "layout state" : 1) Session Layout vs. 2) Note Layout, and if in Note Layout : 2.1) Melodic: 64 Notes, 2.2) Melodic: Sequencer, 2.3) Melodic : Sequencer + 32 Notes and furthermore the state of the Scale Layout : 4th, 3rds or Sequent and last but not least the track color ... this is a hard one ;-) ... or is there another elegent solution for this?
So I guess using M4L-Midi is more like using it on 1 track & its instrument and Audio FX and claim Push more or less exclusively for this one?
On the other side, in a pure (standalone) Max patch I guess, this could be a real beauty, maybe together with Sigaborts P2D package (https://sigabort.co/p2d.html) - do you have experience with this one too?
Push 2 doesn't need to be in "User Mode" for this to work. Push has two MIDI ports, a "Live Port" and a "User Port", and with the m4l-midi you can listen to either of them. Listening to "Live Port" gets you raw MIDI for the buttons pressed while in "Live" mode.
When I use it, I did it just to interpret the MIDI from the main 8x8 grid plus the buttons immediately above that (track selection) and to the side (rhythm divisions), all in the standard mode. For that, as far as the LOM goes, you just want to grab control of the 8x8, top_buttons and side_button matrixes (IIRC) so that Live doesn't try interpreting your button presses to those. But this leaves all the other buttons (and encoders) to function normally. Been a couple years since I fussed with that though so my memory may be fuzzy.
Regarding all the layout states and stuff, the raw MIDI for the other the buttons transmitted stays the same regardless of Live's layout of the pads.
But you're right, you'll need some logic if you want to have different button colors/layouts show up on different tracks/instrument selections.