problem with a patch based on groove


    Feb 06 2008 | 11:24 pm
    Hi i am making a small patch , with the intend to use it within a poly~ using groove and manipulating its loop points. The intention is to use it as some short of an oscilator playing back in hight speeds , not unlike a granular patch.
    However once in a while the patch either stops playing , or i see the waveform loops continue to update however i get no sound out of it.
    I am probably not very clear in my explanations :), thus i simplified and tried to clear it up , if someone could check to see if he can reproduce the problem.
    This hapens usualy in very high speed playback (freq scale on the patch) with very small step values.
    thanks for any help .

    • Feb 07 2008 | 7:32 am
      Greg schrieb: > Hi i am making a small patch , with the intend to use it within a > poly~ using groove and manipulating its loop points. The intention is > to use it as some short of an oscilator playing back in hight speeds > , not unlike a granular patch. > > However once in a while the patch either stops playing , or i see the > waveform loops continue to update however i get no sound out of it. ... > This hapens usualy in very high speed playback (freq scale on the > patch) with very small step values.
      Haven't listened to your patch nor analyzed it completely, but two things come to mind. If you change the loop points randomly, you might get them too narrow. If they are the same by accident, they might stop looping.
      You could get rid of one of the trapezoid~s by the way...
      In general it would be wise to further simplify the patch. Instead of controlling the loop points with your random generator, do it first by hand, then if it works, later add the random functions. Also I doubt that bondo is the best method to control order of execution. Its better to do it with well layed out triggers. I am patching since almost 20 years and I am not sure if I ever needed bondo...
      Last, not least, your screen seems to be much bigger than mine, scrolling isn't fun and doesn't simplify the reading either... ;-)
      Stefan
      -- Stefan Tiedje------------x------- --_____-----------|-------------- --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()------- -- _|_)----|-----()-------------- ----------()--------www.ccmix.com
    • Feb 07 2008 | 8:25 am
      Hi Stefan
      Thanks a lot for your reply . You are right about the loop duration getting too small , i've noticed sometimes that it goes to zero. However only a few times times does it stop, without starting again, if i don't choose new points from the waveform.
      There are other times when although the loop points continue changing (without beeing too small), or that's what the waveform~ seems to be doing, i stop getting audio and i need to close the patch and open it again to get any sound.
      I'll try to take out the random functions) and see what goes on. Indeed i use bondo quite a lot, i'll try to see if i can change this habbit , stil a lot to learn :)
      My laptop has a resolution of 1400 by 1050 , i never though that it could create problems in other monitors , sorry for that .
      cheers and thanks again for the help.
      greg
    • Feb 08 2008 | 10:13 pm
      Greg schrieb: > My laptop has a resolution of 1400 by 1050 , i never though that it > could create problems in other monitors , sorry for that .
      ;-) I have a 12" Powerbook, its still quite convenient with 1024x768 as it forces me to streamline my user interface to that space, which is always better than spreading all across a bigger screen... I might switch to 800x600 in the future to become even better... ;-)
      And good luck with debugging, debugging takes longer than patching, but it also teaches better... ;-)
      Stefan
      -- Stefan Tiedje------------x------- --_____-----------|-------------- --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()------- -- _|_)----|-----()-------------- ----------()--------www.ccmix.com
    • Feb 09 2008 | 1:30 am
      Did you ever try a software called CPS by Niels Gorisse? It's free now, and it's a sort of max-msp-like kind of program for audio and midi processing. It is a very impressing piece of software, especially if you consider that only the author (just one person) worked on it to build it. CPS has a special feature that should be introduced in Max 5 : when something is not working (mostly because of improper settings by the user) or the audio chain shows problems (nothing comes out of the speakers; no sound; wrong values given to some externals) or other issues, the objects related to the problem change in colour (besides the warnings and error messages that appear on the status window) becoming green, and so showing the user what is the problem, and making debugging a lot easier.. To Cycling74: what about introducing a feature like that on Max 5? bye,
      Carlo
      ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Tiedje" To: Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 11:13 PM Subject: Re: [maxmsp] Re: problem with a patch based on groove
      > Greg schrieb: >> My laptop has a resolution of 1400 by 1050 , i never though that it >> could create problems in other monitors , sorry for that . > > ;-) I have a 12" Powerbook, its still quite convenient with 1024x768 as > it forces me to streamline my user interface to that space, which is > always better than spreading all across a bigger screen... > I might switch to 800x600 in the future to become even better... ;-) > > And good luck with debugging, debugging takes longer than patching, but > it also teaches better... ;-) > > Stefan > > -- > Stefan Tiedje------------x------- > --_____-----------|-------------- > --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()------- > -- _|_)----|-----()-------------- > ----------()--------www.ccmix.com > >
    • Feb 09 2008 | 8:46 am
      Carlo Laurenzi schrieb: > CPS has a special feature that should be introduced in Max 5 : when > something is not working (mostly because of improper settings by the > user) or the audio chain shows problems (nothing comes out of the > speakers; no sound; wrong values given to some externals) or other > issues, the objects related to the problem change in colour (besides the > warnings and error messages that appear on the status window) becoming > green, and so showing the user what is the problem, and making debugging > a lot easier.. > To Cycling74: what about introducing a feature like that on Max 5?
      If you can switch it off... Imagine you sit in a performance and have no sound, though its a minor problem and wouldn't affect the result. In contrary, I'd need a way to reset a complete DSP chain including loadbangs, to get patches back with blown filters or feedback lines. At the moment audio will stop and the only way to get back is to reload the patch...
      Coloring of objects which spit out an error message would be nice though, or at least a way to find them in complex patches, also coloring parts of blown DSP chains would be really nice...
      But as I heard there are new aids for debuggin' in Max 5...
      Stefan
      -- Stefan Tiedje------------x------- --_____-----------|-------------- --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()------- -- _|_)----|-----()-------------- ----------()--------www.ccmix.com
    • Feb 09 2008 | 5:02 pm
      Just a coloring of the objects which spit out an error message is what I was trying to sponsor as a new feature to be introduced in Max 5.. Imagine that the object, or as you say a part of a complex patch (it's in these cases that a feature like that would be very useful), stays coloured until you type in the correct messages or values (if one dials values out of functional range, for example.. How may times one has to go back to see the help patch of an object because of having forgotten if it needs to dial in milliseconds or seconds, a value within a range 0-1 ore 0-100, etc...?) and then regains the original default colour without having to reset the Dsp chain?
      Carlo
      ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Tiedje" To: Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 9:46 AM Subject: Re: [maxmsp] Re: problem with a patch ... Debugging and Max 5
      > > If you can switch it off... Imagine you sit in a performance and have no > sound, though its a minor problem and wouldn't affect the result. In > contrary, I'd need a way to reset a complete DSP chain including > loadbangs, to get patches back with blown filters or feedback lines. At > the moment audio will stop and the only way to get back is to reload the > patch... > > Coloring of objects which spit out an error message would be nice though, > or at least a way to find them in complex patches, also coloring parts of > blown DSP chains would be really nice... > > But as I heard there are new aids for debuggin' in Max 5... > > Stefan > > -- > Stefan Tiedje------------x------- > --_____-----------|-------------- > --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()------- > -- _|_)----|-----()-------------- > ----------()--------www.ccmix.com >
    • Feb 13 2008 | 2:26 pm
      Well i've sort of solved the issue with the loop points ( i have added by trial and error an offset of 100ms) , however i still don't unerstand why it gets this behaviour, in a simple patch i tried out where i manualy was changing the loop points i could get it play properly with even 1 or 2 ms of a loop duration.
      Nevertheless i've made now a bigger patch using also poly and i was wondering if there is a way to smoothly change filter characteristics , for example go from a low pass to a bandpass filter. At the moment i am using svf~ and i thought about crossfading its outputs but i don't think it will work . Could this work perhaps with biquad , by interpolating the coeefficients ?
      And here is the patch , granted no anything special but under certain circumstances i can get nice results :)
      thanks again for your help
      and the subpatch (save as Groove_oscil3~)