'Realworld' workflow changes using Projects? (questions inside)

    Apr 06 2013 | 9:22 am
    So I took the plunge and made my big patch (124 files!) a project. The organization is amazing, and it seems to work muuuch better than when it first came out.
    It still didn't move over all my files when consolidated (media files, .fxp files, and exported coll files), but after manually moving them they work A-ok.
    I've got a couple of questions for those of you who have committed to projects for big patches.
    1. Has the 'no save' thing been the death of your exploratory editing? I often will just start messing around with things, quite far sometimes, but then revert to saved by just not saving the file. The 'no save' thing scare me a bit as everything I do is being saved all the time without being able to revert versions at all. I suppose I could make a snapshot every time I want to mess with the patch, but sometime I don't know that I want to do that, so I'd have to make a snapshot every time I open the patch!
    2. In my patch, I change a few things when I share a new version with the public. (ie making a vst choice open up any vst vs a specific one) I even make it so windows users have to swap out a subpatch due to an external I use not being on windows. How do you manage things like that? I can make a snapshot before I start doing that, but it appears like the snapshot doesn't 'unpack' into a full version of the project. So how can I make some changes, snare the project, then go back to my own version of it? And is it no longer possible for an end user (using runtime) to swap out a subpatch and run the project with the new file?
    3. Is it me or is it impossible to order files in the project window? The files seem to get added in a willy nilly fashion, and drag/dropping works erratically and unpredictably. There doesn't appear to be an option to have it automatically alphabetise the files in each section. I've got over 40 patchers, and over 30 media files, and with how unpredictable/erratic the drag/drop is, it would take me over an hour to get things in the "right" order manually.

    • Apr 06 2013 | 11:54 am
      hi Rodrigo ! i cant help you with the questions , but one thing i can confirm that drag/dropping can be messy , The thing is that dragging/dropping procedure in OS'es has few stages .
      selection , reORDER based on item index from selection , drag , drop .
      There is condition that is causing what order of the files should occur . for example , if you select a bunch of files . after that you point your mouse on the SECOND item of the selection in order to drag it . THEN when you drop it - Your SECOND item will be FIRST. Simply you are reordering selection , and in fact i think that is a nice feature of the OS'eses . You just need to be aware of that .
      edit : In case we want to order files after dropping may be tricky as Drop doesnt know how many files has been selected to drop . But we need to know the amount of files in order to count them ,for the sake of triggering sorting procedure at the end . So in case of dropping 1000 files ,we are calling custom procedures on every FILE , that would be crazy . i wish i could know the amount of selection at drop stage ,so i would be able to provide that number as a condition .
    • Apr 06 2013 | 12:35 pm
      I'd be happy if it just alphebatised the files by default, or by tick box.
      I was having trouble drag/dropping single files! Makes me feel very windows95 that that's a technical issue...
    • Apr 06 2013 | 12:52 pm
      im assuming that you populating a list of files dropped . right ?
      at least you can sort by UI call .a button - afterwards , but thats bad UX in my opinion ,as you need to remember additional procedure . If you store your files in coll for example you can provide sorting method , by checking symbol names ... the easier way would be to program it in JS . :/
    • Apr 06 2013 | 12:53 pm
      Can you edit the file order in the project window via coll/js/max?
    • Apr 06 2013 | 12:55 pm
      no i dont think so . you could make your own window for that , i can imagine own browser window
    • Apr 06 2013 | 12:57 pm
      Ah, I see. Wouldn't that break dependencies though? My understanding is that once something is a project, you can only access the files with the appropriate dependencies attached by opening them via the project window.
    • Apr 06 2013 | 1:03 pm
      yes this is what i dont know about the projects . im assuming that "project" has normal folder structures , but im not sure . If true you can do your own navigation by populating the files in your own "crated" window . but i didnt have experiences with "projects" just yet so i might be totally wrong there . im sorry ... i just did my own browser / folder navigation in max with JS ,and im selecting files from there that are required for my system to work etc
    • Apr 06 2013 | 1:06 pm
      That seems handy, but I think by design/definition things have to open directly in the project window as all dependencies only attach via that.
    • Apr 06 2013 | 1:11 pm
      perhaps :/ thats why all the things i said dont count there . im sorry for confusing
    • Apr 06 2013 | 1:18 pm
      The documentation isn't very explicit about these things either, though I'm happy to finally have documentation for projects at all. (Last time I tried using it there was (next to?) nothing in terms of documentation).
    • Apr 06 2013 | 2:50 pm
      There appears to be a bug in drag-and-drop ordering of project items. We'll take care of it in a future update. Sorry for the inconvenience!
      Best, Jeremy
    • Apr 06 2013 | 4:03 pm
      Good to know I wasn't going crazy with that.