Score following system?
Hi,
are there any score following systems available for Max/MSP as
externals or patches? Would you care to share some info on what state
of the art of score following is in the world of Max/MSP? :-)
Cheers
Nik
Well, I am not exactly sure I know what you mean by
"score following". If you mean processing MIDI notes
and then doing some kind of statisitcal analysis, then
there is a lot of stuff you can do already. You can
run a histogram on stored note data, calculate rate of change,
average deviation from the root, relative deviation, etc.
Is there something in particular you want to follow?
Anthony
----- Original Message -----
From: Niklas Saers
Date: Wednesday, June 6, 2007 2:24 pm
Subject: [maxmsp] Score following system?
> Hi,
> are there any score following systems available for Max/MSP as
> externals or patches? Would you care to share some info on what
> state
> of the art of score following is in the world of Max/MSP? :-)
>
> Cheers
>
> Nik
>
Hi Anthony,
what I mean by score following system is that I can give it i.e a
MIDI file with a score or a part, then play the music and have it
tell me where in the music I am.
I assume a monophonic instrument, so turning the microphone data into
MIDI data using [pitch~] or [fiddle~] should be easy enough, so I'm
sure this could be done as processing MIDI notes. :-) I'd like such a
system to either say what bar I have come to (perhaps even where in a
bar) or how many percentage of the piece I have completed.
Thanks for your many suggestions. Now that I hopefully have cleared
up what I mean by score following, what strategy would you recommend?
Cheers
Nik
On Jun 6, 2007, at 11:21 PM, apalomba@austin.rr.com wrote:
> Well, I am not exactly sure I know what you mean by
> "score following". If you mean processing MIDI notes
> and then doing some kind of statisitcal analysis, then
> there is a lot of stuff you can do already. You can
> run a histogram on stored note data, calculate rate of change,
> average deviation from the root, relative deviation, etc.
> Is there something in particular you want to follow?
>
>
>
> Anthony
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Niklas Saers
> Date: Wednesday, June 6, 2007 2:24 pm
> Subject: [maxmsp] Score following system?
>
>> Hi,
>> are there any score following systems available for Max/MSP as
>> externals or patches? Would you care to share some info on what
>> state
>> of the art of score following is in the world of Max/MSP? :-)
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Nik
>>
Niklas Saers schrieb:
> are there any score following systems available for Max/MSP as externals
> or patches? Would you care to share some info on what state of the art
> of score following is in the world of Max/MSP? :-)
beside the standard follow object there is the non free suivi package
from Ircam.
follow is pretty limited in terms of error handling, though it does it
to a certain extend. The main problem in realtime score following is how
to deal with missing notes, wrongly played notes and such.
In practical systems you need some anchor points to resynchronise the
score if necessary.
You can do so by using the same technique as you would do as a musician
in the orchestra. If there is a special event, look out for that. For
example if there is a single loud high pitch, you can extract that for
example with a narrow bandwidth filter...
In general try several strategies in parallel...
Stefan
--
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com
Hi Stefan,
yes, I thought the error handling would be the biggest problem, which
is why I really was hoping not to reinvent the wheel, and I'm happy
to hear that there are at least two free and a non-free
implementations available. :-) Thank you very much for your tips and
experience :-)
Cheers
Nik
On Jun 7, 2007, at 10:25 AM, Stefan Tiedje wrote:
> Niklas Saers schrieb:
>> are there any score following systems available for Max/MSP as
>> externals or patches? Would you care to share some info on what
>> state of the art of score following is in the world of Max/MSP? :-)
>
> beside the standard follow object there is the non free suivi
> package from Ircam.
>
> follow is pretty limited in terms of error handling, though it does
> it to a certain extend. The main problem in realtime score
> following is how to deal with missing notes, wrongly played notes
> and such.
> In practical systems you need some anchor points to resynchronise
> the score if necessary.
>
> You can do so by using the same technique as you would do as a
> musician in the orchestra. If there is a special event, look out
> for that. For example if there is a single loud high pitch, you can
> extract that for example with a narrow bandwidth filter...
> In general try several strategies in parallel...
>
> Stefan
>
> --
> Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
> --_____-----------|--------------
> --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
> -- _|_)----|-----()--------------
> ----------()--------www.ccmix.com
>
Thank you all for your comments on score following. I think I'll
start off with trying to use a reduced version of the score and
[follow]/[detonate], simply because I've already payed for the
software. :-) I'm looking forward to seeing [suivi], but I could not
find a demo, only a 120 euro subscription, so I think even with the
praise it's got I'd like to see it for myself before buying it. :-)
Thank you very much again for your input. :-)
Cheers
Nik
On Jun 7, 2007, at 5:40 PM, Peter McCulloch wrote:
> Detonate and follow are going to have much less tolerances for
> errors. Generally speaking the approach that I've seen with those
> two is to not put the whole score into them, but a sort of skeleton
> score. (think Schenker graph...) That way there's less
> unimportant notes to miss.
>
> Suivi is definitely more robust because it uses a hidden markov
> model rather than just simple matching, so it can figure out if you
> skipped a note, and advance itself to the current position.
>
> Peter
On Jun 7, 2007, at 6:38 PM, Jean-Michel Darremont wrote:
> It's supposed to be much more efficient than [follow] or [detonate]
> according to people who used it.
> I think mono is even simpler to follow than polyphonic music.
> It's very new.
> You should try it to make your opinion.
On Jun 8, 2007, at 1:14 AM, peiman khosravi wrote:
> I'v tried the example patches of suivi it was like magic!!
> Peiman
>
I am trying suivi~ right now.
I don't think suivi~ really handles errors itself. I think suivi is just another version of detenote or follow. Without further programming, it still gets stucked or skipped too many notes if wrong notes are played. There is also no parameter in suivi external for users to decide ways of error handling.
Any ideas ?
Thanks.
Quote: peimankhosravi@gmail.com wrote on Thu, 07 June 2007 17:14
----------------------------------------------------
> I'v tried the example patches of suivi it was like magic!!
> Peiman
>
> On 07/06/07, Jean-Michel Darremont wrote:
Keith Hamel has developed a complete notation software called Notability that includes score following and the ability to trigger events. I have seen him use it with Max/MSP but have not personally used it. The ease with which he sets things up looks fantastic and is worth a look.
You can find info here:
http://debussy.music.ubc.ca/NoteAbility/index.html
Stefan