[sharing is fun] natural sounding granular time stretcher (Max 5)
Hi all,
I finally managed to do natural sounding real-time granular time stretching / pitch shifting in Max, with pretty much the same quality as applications like Ableton Live and Reaktor. Unlike FFT-based (phase vocoder) approaches, granular time stretching has no inherent latency.
http://www.arttech.nl/max/time%20stretcher%20080423.zip (note, the patch is in Max 5 format)
This patch uses the great pitch~ object by CNMAT, that you can download here:
http://cnmat.berkeley.edu/downloads (scroll down to the alphabetical list of Individual Downloads and look for pitch~).
Enjoy!
Mattijs
Excellent work Mattijs!
Dan
At 6:06 PM +0200 4/23/08, Mattijs Kneppers wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I finally managed to do natural sounding real-time granular time
>stretching / pitch shifting in Max, with pretty much the same
>quality as applications like Ableton Live and Reaktor. Unlike
>FFT-based (phase vocoder) approaches, granular time stretching has
>no inherent latency.
>
>http://www.arttech.nl/max/time%20stretcher%20080423.zip (note, the
>patch is in Max 5 format)
>
>This patch uses the great pitch~ object by CNMAT, that you can download here:
>http://cnmat.berkeley.edu/downloads (scroll down to the alphabetical
>list of Individual Downloads and look for pitch~).
--
Dan Nigrin
Defective Records
202 Hack / PC-1600 User / VSTi Host / OMS Convert / Jack OS X / Major
Malfunction
http://www.defectiverecords.com
http://www.jackosx.com
Mattijs Kneppers schrieb:
> I finally managed to do natural sounding real-time granular time
> stretching / pitch shifting in Max, with pretty much the same quality
> as applications like Ableton Live and Reaktor.
I'd love to hear it, but it doesn't produce any sound here, I loaded one
of the sample sound files, and don't know what it supposed to do,
hitting trigger doesn't create any result, and the numberbox aside has
no lable (no idea what its for...) When loading the beat file, the
waveform~ shows only very small low bits, it seems it doesn't import the
wav correctly, the Tones example at least looks like a waveform~...
It would be helpful if all number boxes would be limited to useful
values, as I have no idea what a useful value could be...
But anyway, thanks for sharing, I might be able to debug it myself, but
I am preparing a move, so I'd only do it in a few weeks...
Stefan
--
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com
hi mattijs,
really nice patch. could i ask where the herat sample is from?
cheers,
oli
the patch works for me. sounds great! I'll definitely be getting some use out of this one.
very exciting. thanks!
Thanks Dan and Oli!
Stefan, I can't reproduce that here. The patch should start playing directly after you read a sample, no need for triggering. Assuming you enabled dsp, of course. Do the samples play correctly in iTunes, for example? Which os/max are you on? I tested on Mac OS 10.4.11, Max 5 34567.
I agree that the number boxes should be limited, thanks for the suggestion. The number box left to the trigger is the position in milliseconds (which you can set by clicking in the waveform) that you can trigger by pressing the bang or the space bar. I added the trigger somewhat at the end to explicitly show the benefits of a granular based approach. Triggering like that, without any latency, is not possible with an fft based system.
Oli, I got the herat sample from a sound sharing website (http://freesound.iua.upf.edu/). It is made by ERH (http://www.myspace.com/sinuspiralmusic).
Best,
Mattijs
Quote: Mattijs wrote on Wed, 23 April 2008 22:43
----------------------------------------------------
> Thanks Dan and Oli!
>
And Nick :)
It's working really great ! Thanks for sharing.
Hi,
interesting patch but it doesn't produce any sound for me...
Please help me understand why.
All the best
--
Alessandro Fogar
2008/4/23, Mattijs Kneppers :
>
> Hi all,
>
> I finally managed to do natural sounding real-time granular time stretching / pitch shifting in Max, with pretty much the same quality as applications like Ableton Live and Reaktor. Unlike FFT-based (phase vocoder) approaches, granular time stretching has no inherent latency.
>
> http://www.arttech.nl/max/time%20stretcher%20080423.zip (note, the patch is in Max 5 format)
>
> This patch uses the great pitch~ object by CNMAT, that you can download here:
> http://cnmat.berkeley.edu/downloads (scroll down to the alphabetical list of Individual Downloads and look for pitch~).
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Mattijs
>
Hi,
don't know if this can help but I'm on a G4/ OS 10.4.10
All the best
--
Alessandro Fogar
2008/4/23, Mattijs Kneppers :
>
> Thanks Dan and Oli!
>
> Stefan, I can't reproduce that here. The patch should start playing directly after you read a sample, no need for triggering. Assuming you enabled dsp, of course. Do the samples play correctly in iTunes, for example? Which os/max are you on? I tested on Mac OS 10.4.11, Max 5 34567.
>
> I agree that the number boxes should be limited, thanks for the suggestion. The number box left to the trigger is the position in milliseconds (which you can set by clicking in the waveform) that you can trigger by pressing the bang or the space bar. I added the trigger somewhat at the end to explicitly show the benefits of a granular based approach. Triggering like that, without any latency, is not possible with an fft based system.
>
> Oli, I got the herat sample from a sound sharing website (http://freesound.iua.upf.edu/). It is made by ERH (http://www.myspace.com/sinuspiralmusic).
>
> Best,
>
> Mattijs
>
>
gahhhh! pitch~ is only for Mac. How annoying...
Can I replace it with fiddle~?
I would really like to hear your patch but have
not had the chance to install Max5 yet. I figure
I was going to wait until they fix any missed
quirks. Can you post a Max4 version as well?
Quote: Anthony Palomba wrote on Thu, 24 April 2008 00:23
----------------------------------------------------
> gahhhh! pitch~ is only for Mac. How annoying...
> Can I replace it with fiddle~?
I heard some rumors that fiddle~ doesn't work well with Max 5. But I didn't try, I'll look into that. Note that the Beats mode doesn't use pitch detection, it should work without the pitch~ object.
>
> I would really like to hear your patch but have
> not had the chance to install Max5 yet. I figure
> I was going to wait until they fix any missed
> quirks. Can you post a Max4 version as well?
>
Is that because you want your 30 days to start later or because you're afraid you can't use Max 4 anymore after installing Max 5? In case of the latter: Max 5 runs alongside Max 4 perfectly well.
There is no automatic way to convert Max 5 patches to Max 4, but I got a similar request in the context of a project I'm working on so chances are that I'll do this somewhere in the next month. Or maybe you can find someone who has max 5 installed to do it for you.
Mattijs
Quote: sfogar wrote on Thu, 24 April 2008 00:18
----------------------------------------------------
> Hi,
>
> don't know if this can help but I'm on a G4/ OS 10.4.10
>
> All the best
>
> --
> Alessandro Fogar
>
> http://www.fogar.it
>
Ok, I heard 10.4.11 is necessary for some Max 5 features, especially documentation stuff though.
Best,
Mattijs
Hi,
don't think this is related but I'll upgdare as soon as possible.
Yesterday I investigate better about this problem with the Max5 audio
probes and noticed some problem, will look better later tonite.
All the best
--
Alessandro Fogar
2008/4/24, Mattijs Kneppers :
>
> Quote: sfogar wrote on Thu, 24 April 2008 00:18
> ----------------------------------------------------
> > Hi,
> >
> > don't know if this can help but I'm on a G4/ OS 10.4.10
> >
> > All the best
> >
> > --
> > Alessandro Fogar
> >
> > http://www.fogar.it
> >
>
> Ok, I heard 10.4.11 is necessary for some Max 5 features, especially documentation stuff though.
>
> Best,
> Mattijs
>
Hi,
I tried it also on Windows Xp and it works (in beat mode).
What I think it does not work for me on OS X is the soundfiles loading.
Probably this has to do with Quicktime.
All the best
--
Alessandro Fogar
2008/4/24, Alessandro Fogar :
> Hi,
>
> don't think this is related but I'll upgdare as soon as possible.
>
> Yesterday I investigate better about this problem with the Max5 audio
> probes and noticed some problem, will look better later tonite.
>
> All the best
>
> --
> Alessandro Fogar
>
> http://www.fogar.it
>
>
> 2008/4/24, Mattijs Kneppers :
> >
> > Quote: sfogar wrote on Thu, 24 April 2008 00:18
> > ----------------------------------------------------
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > don't know if this can help but I'm on a G4/ OS 10.4.10
> > >
> > > All the best
> > >
> > > --
> > > Alessandro Fogar
> > >
> > > http://www.fogar.it
> > >
> >
> > Ok, I heard 10.4.11 is necessary for some Max 5 features, especially documentation stuff though.
> >
> > Best,
> > Mattijs
> >
>
Loading samples takes quite some time and makes Max 'not responding' for a while on Windows XP.
Is it based on granuLaRrrr?
hei seems to be great stuff!
actually it doesn't work as expected here max 5 osx 10.4.10..
i can load file but it doesn't play correctly..the sound is horribly granulized (very small pitched grains and is nearly not recognisable..)..i hopei get it works..and finally maxers can have their granular sampler!!!
best
mic
At 10:35 AM +0200 4/24/08, Mattijs Kneppers wrote:
>Quote: Anthony Palomba wrote on Thu, 24 April 2008 00:23
>----------------------------------------------------
>> gahhhh! pitch~ is only for Mac. How annoying...
>> Can I replace it with fiddle~?
>
>I heard some rumors that fiddle~ doesn't work well with Max 5. But I
>didn't try, I'll look into that. Note that the Beats mode doesn't
>use pitch detection, it should work without the pitch~ object.
Tristan Jehan ported pitch~ to Windows I believe:
Dan
--
Dan Nigrin
Defective Records
202 Hack / PC-1600 User / VSTi Host / OMS Convert / Jack OS X / Major
Malfunction
http://www.defectiverecords.com
http://www.jackosx.com
Indeed I did find pitch~ in the MIT externals, thanks
for the info. I am normally hesitant in installing a new
version of software because there are always issues, but
if you guys say Max4 and Max5 can co exist, I will give it a
try.
Works just fine for me - MacBook Pro 2.16 GHz, MaxMSP 5, OSX 10.4.11. Nice work, and very much appreciated!
For those for whom it did not work, you did download and install the CNMAT object [pitch~], yes?
Quote: smill wrote on Thu, 24 April 2008 07:51
----------------------------------------------------
> Works just fine for me - MacBook Pro 2.16 GHz, MaxMSP 5, OSX 10.4.11. Nice work, and very much appreciated!
>
> For those for whom it did not work, you did download and install the CNMAT object [pitch~], yes?
----------------------------------------------------
Yes, indeed. I'm getting this extremely distorted, rhythmic 'choppy' sound with the sample being barely discernible. I have tried multiple sample rates, overdrive on/off, vector sizes, etc.
Hi,
if you look at the waveform with an external editor, it's not the same
which the waveform object in Max5 displays. So I think that the sample
does not load correctly.
All the best
--
Alessandro Fogar
2008/4/24, matt :
>
> Quote: smill wrote on Thu, 24 April 2008 07:51
> ----------------------------------------------------
> > Works just fine for me - MacBook Pro 2.16 GHz, MaxMSP 5, OSX 10.4.11. Nice work, and very much appreciated!
> >
> > For those for whom it did not work, you did download and install the CNMAT object [pitch~], yes?
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Yes, indeed. I'm getting this extremely distorted, rhythmic 'choppy' sound with the sample being barely discernible. I have tried multiple sample rates, overdrive on/off, vector sizes, etc.
> --
> http://www.virb.com/cebec
>
It's not limited to the included sample because I tried with my own. Could be you're right, though... It's not being loaded correctly..
Ok guys, thank you for all the information.
I think this is a Max 5 bug that concerns the import function of buffer~. I tried on two more computers. There was no problem on a MacPro Quad, but there was on a Dual G5, both on 10.4.11. I don't know if the architecture has anything to do with it though.
Anyway, this is what happens on the ppc:
As you can see, the file loads fine with the read command but something weird happens when using the import command.
I attached the small test patch in a zip.
Cycling, I'm curious whether you can reproduce this? Note that it seems to work on some computers but not on others..
Best,
Mattijs
Hey Berend!
> Loading samples takes quite some time and makes Max 'not responding' for a while on Windows XP.
Perhaps this has to do with the same buffer import issue. Joshua has just promised me to fix this. Importing the mp3 Tones test sample can take a few seconds on older computers though, during which max will not respond, which is normal behaviour.
> Is it based on granuLaRrrr?
No, it's based on nothing but my own imagination.
Mattijs
On Apr 24, 2008, at 12:45 PM, Mattijs Kneppers wrote:
>
>> Loading samples takes quite some time and makes Max 'not
>> responding' for a while on Windows XP.
>
> Perhaps this has to do with the same buffer import issue. Joshua has
> just promised me to fix this. Importing the mp3 Tones test sample
> can take a few seconds on older computers though, during which max
> will not respond, which is normal behaviour.
Load time is just related to how long QT takes to import the file (and
probably an issue if QT is not installed), but I've fixed the byte
ordering issue when importing wave files on PPC for Friday's 5.0.1
incremental release. Maybe faster for you to use read for wave/aiff
and import for mp3's, though it takes a little bit of patching.
If anyone is having the byteswapping issue on MacTel (Matfhew
Carpenfer?), and they have actually correctly downloaded the UB
version of pitch~ and placed in their search path, then you should
double check that you haven't forced Max to load in Rosetta somehow
(get info on the app and make sure the "Open using Rosetta" checkbox
is not enabled). This makes Max load in PPC emulation which is *slow*.
Conversely, for all you C developers out there, "Open using Rosetta",
is exactly how I am able to reproduce and verify bug fixes for PPC
users, without having to leave my MacTel mahine.
-Joshua
Quote: jkc wrote on Thu, 24 April 2008 22:13
----------------------------------------------------
> Conversely, for all you C developers out there, "Open using Rosetta",
> is exactly how I am able to reproduce and verify bug fixes for PPC
> users, without having to leave my MacTel mahine.
Hey, nice one.
Mattijs
hi,
is it possible to get this patch for max463 please ?
thx.
f./
Quote: jkc wrote on Thu, 24 April 2008 14:13
----------------------------------------------------
> If anyone is having the byteswapping issue on MacTel (Matfhew
> Carpenfer?), and they have actually correctly downloaded the UB
> version of pitch~ and placed in their search path, then you should
> double check that you haven't forced Max to load in Rosetta somehow
> (get info on the app and make sure the "Open using Rosetta" checkbox
> is not enabled). This makes Max load in PPC emulation which is *slow*.
>
----------------------------------------------------
Double-checked all of the above!
I made a version where you can jam out on the a-k keys to trigger different parts of the loop in quantization. i posted this in another thread, but it ends up that I got it working so I figured Id post it here.
Thanks mattijs!
oop had to shift the triggers back, noticed it was starting at the 2nd 1/16 note, also changed the keys to be the more natural a-f j-; hand arrangement
Quote: Chris Muir wrote on Thu, 24 April 2008 23:47
----------------------------------------------------
>
> On Apr 24, 2008, at 2:08 PM, fp wrote:
> > is it possible to get this patch for max463 please ?
>
>
> I have no idea about the particulars of this patch (I'm sure Mattijs
> will chime in here), but as a general theme, if a patch is at all
> complex, and was written in Max 5, it's probably way too much work to
> port it back to Max 4.
Yeah, it would mean re-creating every object by hand in Max 4. I don't think I'll get to that anytime soon. Let me know when someone wrote a 5-to-4 converter.
Mattijs
Quote: Axiom-Crux wrote on Fri, 25 April 2008 08:25
----------------------------------------------------
> oop had to shift the triggers back, noticed it was starting at the 2nd 1/16 note, also changed the keys to be the more natural a-f j-; hand arrangement
----------------------------------------------------
Hi Axiom-Crux, that's a nice application, although for this situation it would make sense to calculate the original bpm from the file length, assuming that the amount of bars/beats it contains is a power of 2.
Mattijs
Quote: Mattijs wrote on Fri, 25 April 2008 02:14
----------------------------------------------------
> Let me know when someone wrote a 5-to-4 converter.
The more I use Max 5, the more I think that this is pretty unlikely. There is too much stuff that just won't translate that direction.
-C
ok. i undestand.
i tried it on max5, G5 2,7, os10411.
i have the pitch object.
but it doesn't work.
even i replace import by read for the buffer.
Quote: fp wrote on Fri, 25 April 2008 11:52
----------------------------------------------------
> ok. i undestand.
> i tried it on max5, G5 2,7, os10411.
> i have the pitch object.
>
> but it doesn't work.
> even i replace import by read for the buffer.
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------
Hm, that's weird, seeing that others have no trouble apart from the import issue. Could you be more specific about what doesn't work? Is the waveform displayed correctly? Do you get sound at all?
Mattijs
Hey, I had the same troubles. Tried replacing the 'import' with 'replace' and still no dice. I've also tried playing with the vector size, interrupt, overdrive etc. The soundfile appears to be loading into waveform~ properly and some sound does come out, it's just not what would be expected.
It's a shame, as the patch itself looks great.
I could make a recording later on if that would be helpful?
Oh yes, I'm on 10.4.11, G4 Mac Mini.
Quote: Mattijs wrote on Fri, 25 April 2008 11:34
----------------------------------------------------
> Quote: fp wrote on Fri, 25 April 2008 11:52
> ----------------------------------------------------
> > ok. i undestand.
> > i tried it on max5, G5 2,7, os10411.
> > i have the pitch object.
> >
> > but it doesn't work.
> > even i replace import by read for the buffer.
> >
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Hm, that's weird, seeing that others have no trouble apart from the import issue. Could you be more specific about what doesn't work? Is the waveform displayed correctly? Do you get sound at all?
>
> Mattijs
----------------------------------------------------
Quote: george.r.dennis@gmail.com wrote on Fri, 25 April 2008 16:43
----------------------------------------------------
> Hey, I had the same troubles. Tried replacing the 'import' with 'replace' and still no dice. I've also tried playing with the vector size, interrupt, overdrive etc. The soundfile appears to be loading into waveform~ properly and some sound does come out, it's just not what would be expected.
>
> It's a shame, as the patch itself looks great.
>
> I could make a recording later on if that would be helpful?
>
> Oh yes, I'm on 10.4.11, G4 Mac Mini.
>
>
Hi George, thanks for the info. If would be great if you could make a short recording, maybe I can hear what is going on.
If there is anything else that looks weird, please let me know. Any clue is welcome. All the patch is supposed to do is load the audio file and immediately start looping it, indicating the play position with the multislider beneath the waveform.
Mattijs
in fact with the read message the waveform is ok.
play and pitch are ok too.
but nohing outside of the poly. i don't know inside where it stops.
i seems to be the same poblem than stefan.
>
>
> Hm, that's weird, seeing that others have no trouble apart from the
> import issue. Could you be more specific about what doesn't work?
> Is the waveform displayed correctly? Do you get sound at all?
>
> Mattijs
I gave my text key trigger version to a friend and he said on his g5 it doesn't output any sound, it has a full bar of audio as if its playing a steady tone at full volume, and when he moves the volume it clicks. Could this be something about the part that plays grains? Maybe something about the windows?? I cant see how but seems rather strange.
What was this about testing things in cfm mode? How can I activate the rosetta emulation?
Great thread and great patch!
and great pseudonym!!! holy crap your acct is synthesizer patel!!! look around you! just look around you!
Excellent work! thanks for sharing this.
(In case you do a 'version 2', i think control over the grain size would be a really nice addition.)
Quote: bitbutter wrote on Sat, 26 April 2008 04:25
----------------------------------------------------
> Excellent work! thanks for sharing this.
>
> (In case you do a 'version 2', i think control over the grain size would be a really nice addition.)
----------------------------------------------------
Look into the patch, you'll easily find it...
any progress on this?? Im really confused after looking deep into the patch, cant seem to figure out anything that should act differently on ppc systems.
Quote: Axiom-Crux wrote on Fri, 25 April 2008 20:27
----------------------------------------------------
> I gave my text key trigger version to a friend and he said on his g5 it doesn't output any sound, it has a full bar of audio as if its playing a steady tone at full volume, and when he moves the volume it clicks. Could this be something about the part that plays grains? Maybe something about the windows?? I cant see how but seems rather strange.
>
> What was this about testing things in cfm mode? How can I activate the rosetta emulation?
----------------------------------------------------
Ok, thanks for the info, all.
I believe I found another Max bug that breaks the time stretcher patch on PPC. Steps to reproduce are inside the attached patch.
Mattijs
Here is a temporary (!) version of the time stretcher patch that works for me when I open Max 5 using Rosetta (Power PC mode). It uses replace instead of import and doesn't send the buffer name to the wave~ object on load. PPC-ers, if you have the time I'd love to know whether this patch works for you:
When the new Max 5 (5.0.1) update is out and there are no more bugs, I'll provide a new version of this patch, using the suggestions everyone did in this thread.
Mattijs
HI,
yes, I tried on ppc and it works but I can hear some artifacts even at
0 transposition and normal speed.
I tried on a Windows machine and the sound is much better !
Many thanks
All the best
--
Alessandro Fogar
2008/4/26 Mattijs Kneppers :
>
> Here is a temporary (!) version of the time stretcher patch that works for me when I open Max 5 using Rosetta (Power PC mode). It uses replace instead of import and doesn't send the buffer name to the wave~ object on load. PPC-ers, if you have the time I'd love to know whether this patch works for you:
>
> http://www.arttech.nl/max/time%20stretcher%20080426TEMP.zip
>
>
> When the new Max 5 (5.0.1) update is out and there are no more bugs, I'll provide a new version of this patch, using the suggestions everyone did in this thread.
>
> Mattijs
>
>
>
Hi,
an update: tried with MAx 5.01 but no joy...
The original now loads the file correctly but no sound, the temp
release plays but the sound is not ok.
Many tanks
--
Alessandro Fogar
2008/4/27 Alessandro Fogar :
> HI,
>
> yes, I tried on ppc and it works but I can hear some artifacts even at
> 0 transposition and normal speed.
>
> I tried on a Windows machine and the sound is much better !
>
> Many thanks
>
>
> All the best
>
> --
> Alessandro Fogar
>
> http://www.fogar.it
>
> 2008/4/26 Mattijs Kneppers :
>
>
> >
> > Here is a temporary (!) version of the time stretcher patch that works for me when I open Max 5 using Rosetta (Power PC mode). It uses replace instead of import and doesn't send the buffer name to the wave~ object on load. PPC-ers, if you have the time I'd love to know whether this patch works for you:
> >
> > http://www.arttech.nl/max/time%20stretcher%20080426TEMP.zip
> >
> >
> > When the new Max 5 (5.0.1) update is out and there are no more bugs, I'll provide a new version of this patch, using the suggestions everyone did in this thread.
> >
> > Mattijs
> >
> >
> >
>
Quote: sfogar wrote on Sun, 27 April 2008 11:07
----------------------------------------------------
> Hi,
>
> an update: tried with MAx 5.01 but no joy...
>
> The original now loads the file correctly but no sound, the temp
> release plays but the sound is not ok.
>
Thanks for trying, sfogar. It seems that a fix for the set buffer bug on ppc didn't make it to 5.0.1.
I can't reproduce the sound artifacts you describe on ppc when I open the temporary patch on Intel using Rosetta. I'm curious what it sounds like. It would be great if you have time to make a short recording (one loop or so) and attach it..
Best,
Mattijs
Mattijs,
yesterday I tried again and the sound was ok (on the temp version)
with 0 transposition and no bpm change.
But as soon as I tried changing the setting the sound artifacts
appeared as a sort of lfo applied to the sound nad had to close the
patch to get a good sound again.
Later tonite I'll try understand if I can reproduce it.
All the best
--
Alessandro Fogar
2008/4/27 Mattijs Kneppers :
>
> Quote: sfogar wrote on Sun, 27 April 2008 11:07
> ----------------------------------------------------
> > Hi,
> >
> > an update: tried with MAx 5.01 but no joy...
> >
> > The original now loads the file correctly but no sound, the temp
> > release plays but the sound is not ok.
> >
>
> Thanks for trying, sfogar. It seems that a fix for the set buffer bug on ppc didn't make it to 5.0.1.
>
> I can't reproduce the sound artifacts you describe on ppc when I open the temporary patch on Intel using Rosetta. I'm curious what it sounds like. It would be great if you have time to make a short recording (one loop or so) and attach it..
>
> Best,
>
> Mattijs
>
here's a recording:
http://www.pan-etc.net/res/media/MaxMSP-20080427-1413.mp3
Quote: fp wrote on Mon, 28 April 2008 21:05
----------------------------------------------------
> here's a recording:
> http://www.pan-etc.net/res/media/MaxMSP-20080427-1413.mp3
----------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the recording fp. It sounds a bit as if the grain size if very small. I assume your system specs are still: max5, G5 2,7, os10411?
I just had the chance to try the temporary patch on Max5, G5 2 x 2.5, OS 10.4.11 but there really is no problem here, so it's clearly not a ppc specific thing.
One more question: what are your DSP settings? Maybe a screenshot of your DSP Status window clarifies things.
Alessandro, is your sound the same as fp's recording?
Mattijs
Mattijs,
yes, it's the same sound.
In my case it happens (also on Windows xp, original patch) when you
move the 'tempo' slider in 'beat mode'.
Even if you return to 120 the sound is affected.
All the best
--
Alessandro Fogar
2008/4/29 Mattijs Kneppers :
>
> Quote: fp wrote on Mon, 28 April 2008 21:05
> ----------------------------------------------------
>> here's a recording:
>> http://www.pan-etc.net/res/media/MaxMSP-20080427-1413.mp3
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Thanks for the recording fp. It sounds a bit as if the grain size if very small. I assume your system specs are still: max5, G5 2,7, os10411?
>
> I just had the chance to try the temporary patch on Max5, G5 2 x 2.5, OS 10.4.11 but there really is no problem here, so it's clearly not a ppc specific thing.
>
> One more question: what are your DSP settings? Maybe a screenshot of your DSP Status window clarifies things.
>
> Alessandro, is your sound the same as fp's recording?
>
> Mattijs
>
here's the dsp pict:
could the vector size be an issue?
On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 5:04 PM, Alessandro Fogar wrote:
> Mattijs,
>
> yes, it's the same sound.
>
> In my case it happens (also on Windows xp, original patch) when you
> move the 'tempo' slider in 'beat mode'.
>
> Even if you return to 120 the sound is affected.
>
>
> All the best
>
> --
> Alessandro Fogar
>
> http://www.fogar.it
>
> 2008/4/29 Mattijs Kneppers :
>
>
> >
> > Quote: fp wrote on Mon, 28 April 2008 21:05
> > ----------------------------------------------------
> >> here's a recording:
> >> http://www.pan-etc.net/res/media/MaxMSP-20080427-1413.mp3
> > ----------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Thanks for the recording fp. It sounds a bit as if the grain size if very small. I assume your system specs are still: max5, G5 2,7, os10411?
> >
> > I just had the chance to try the temporary patch on Max5, G5 2 x 2.5, OS 10.4.11 but there really is no problem here, so it's clearly not a ppc specific thing.
> >
> > One more question: what are your DSP settings? Maybe a screenshot of your DSP Status window clarifies things.
> >
> > Alessandro, is your sound the same as fp's recording?
> >
> > Mattijs
> >
>
Quote: fp wrote on Wed, 30 April 2008 11:13
----------------------------------------------------
> here's the dsp pict:
----------------------------------------------------
Thanks a lot fp.
Your settings are exactly the same as mine. So, in short, I'm at a complete loss. I tried the patch on a very similar system, with exactly the same settings, but there is no way I can get that sound here. Everything simply works for me.
If anyone has a suggestion, please let me know.
Mattijs
I had a friend on PPC running my key trigger version, and his worked when I updated to your ppc friendly version, however after restarting max for some reason it started just playing pure noise. Man this is so odd, Ive never seen such a seemingly simple patch using almost entirely built in objects have so many little issues.
Has anyone else had this noise problem? any thoughts on where to start troubleshooting? we tried dsp settings, which is the obvious. We will try again later.
i confirm, it's perfect with vector optimization off.
great !!!
thx a lot.
Quote: fp wrote on Thu, 01 May 2008 19:51
----------------------------------------------------
> i confirm, it's perfect with vector optimization off.
> great !!!
> thx a lot.
----------------------------------------------------
Happy to hear that turning vector optimization off fixes it for you, fp. Is it true that if you turn vector optimization back on, the patch stops working again?
This sure is a mysterious bug.. I hope someone at cycling can reproduce this issue somehow. I can't, but I'll keep trying.
Mattijs
We disabled PowerPC vector optimization completely in 5.0.1. It's possible that a 5.0.0 user is having trouble where a 5.0.1 user would not.
David Z.
Quote: David Zicarelli wrote on Thu, 01 May 2008 20:36
----------------------------------------------------
> We disabled PowerPC vector optimization completely in 5.0.1. It's possible that a 5.0.0 user is having trouble where a 5.0.1 user would not.
>
> David Z.
>
>
----------------------------------------------------
Ah, thanks for that info!
So the question is: is there anyone with Max version 5.0.1 (please double-check this) who can get the temporary version of the time stretching patch to sound corrupt in any way?
Mattijs
Hi,
I confirm what I said before, if you load the 'Tones example - Herat'
(I converted to wav to test with new patch and 5.01) and change the
tempo slider, you can hear the artifacts.
All the best
--
Alessandro Fogar
2008/5/1 Mattijs Kneppers :
>
> Quote: David Zicarelli wrote on Thu, 01 May 2008 20:36
> ----------------------------------------------------
>> We disabled PowerPC vector optimization completely in 5.0.1. It's possible that a 5.0.0 user is having trouble where a 5.0.1 user would not.
>>
>> David Z.
>>
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Ah, thanks for that info!
>
> So the question is: is there anyone with Max version 5.0.1 (please double-check this) who can get the temporary version of the time stretching patch to sound corrupt in any way?
>
> Mattijs
>
Alessandro's problems sound like a different kind of issue (lfo amplitude variation rather than byteswapped bitnoise), and it probably has something to do with the windowing synchronization. If anything changes by enabling/disabling vector optimization, then it is probably related to the pitch~ object, since that flag should now be ignored by all standard MSP objects.
-Joshua
Quote: jkc wrote on Thu, 01 May 2008 23:14
----------------------------------------------------
>
> Alessandro's problems sound like a different kind of issue (lfo amplitude variation rather than byteswapped bitnoise), and it probably has something to do with the windowing synchronization. If anything changes by enabling/disabling vector optimization, then it is probably related to the pitch~ object, since that flag should now be ignored by all standard MSP objects.
>
> -Joshua
----------------------------------------------------
Thanks for mentioning that Joshua.
Alessandro, just to be sure: when playing the Herat sample, you did set Mode to 'Tones', right?
In case you did: Lfo-isch artifacts in Tones mode are expected to a minimal extent, but not more than the Tones mode in for example Ableton Live. If there are very obvious artifacts, as Joshua states, maybe there's a problem with [pitch~]. In that case I'd appreciate if you could make a recording and send it to me.
So it seems with 5.0.2 all the really bad playback problems will be solved. Nice!
Best,
Mattijs
Hi,
As promised, the latest version of the granular time stretcher, with some slight improvements. It should work on both PowerPC and Intel machines.
You can find it on my user page:
Cheers,
Mattijs
Mattijs ... Is there a Max 4 version of the time stretcher?
Cheers
Gary Lee Nelson
TIMARA Department
Oberlin College
www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson
On Jun 12, 2008, at 3:11 PM, Adam Murray wrote:
>
> Quote: Mattijs wrote on Thu, 12 June 2008 04:58
> ----------------------------------------------------
>> Max 5 versions will come as soon as Cycling '74 releases the Max 5
>> API.
>>
>
> I'm using Max 5 almost exclusively now so I'm really looking
> forward to the Max 5 version. I hope you and John get to beta test
> the Max 5 SDK. That would be a win-win situation for everyone.
>
> It will be very interesting to see how people use these objects:
> which OO patterns are effective in Max and what do they look like
> in patch form? So please share (because it's fun!) and I will do
> the same :)
> --
> Adam Murray
> compusition.com
Hi Gary, at the moment there isn't, I created it in Max 5. But I am developing a plugin based on that engine, which I still need to do in Max 4 (Pluggo for 5 isn't out yet). So if you're really in need of it I guess I could email you a copy of a Max 4 version when I have it all copied (object by object :p).
Mattijs
Btw I hope you don't mind that I moved your reply to the thread about the granular engine.
I would like to see a Max 4 version when you get around to it. I am
still locked into 4 because I have too many pending projects to be
confident that I can move everything I need.
Cheers
Gary Lee Nelson
TIMARA Department
Oberlin College
www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson
On Jun 12, 2008, at 5:31 PM, Mattijs Kneppers wrote:
>
> Hi Gary, at the moment there isn't, I created it in Max 5. But I am
> developing a plugin based on that engine, which I still need to do
> in Max 4 (Pluggo for 5 isn't out yet). So if you're really in need
> of it I guess I could email you a copy of a Max 4 version when I
> have it all copied (object by object :p).
>
> Mattijs
>
> Btw I hope you don't mind that I moved your reply to the thread
> about the granular engine.
same here
ciao
Quote: Gary Lee Nelson wrote on Fri, 13 June 2008 00:08
----------------------------------------------------
> I would like to see a Max 4 version when you get around to it. I am
> still locked into 4 because I have too many pending projects to be
> confident that I can move everything I need.
>
> Cheers
> Gary Lee Nelson
> TIMARA Department
> Oberlin College
> www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 12, 2008, at 5:31 PM, Mattijs Kneppers wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi Gary, at the moment there isn't, I created it in Max 5. But I am
> > developing a plugin based on that engine, which I still need to do
> > in Max 4 (Pluggo for 5 isn't out yet). So if you're really in need
> > of it I guess I could email you a copy of a Max 4 version when I
> > have it all copied (object by object :p).
> >
> > Mattijs
> >
> > Btw I hope you don't mind that I moved your reply to the thread
> > about the granular engine.
>
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------
Quote: Mattijs wrote on Sun, 15 June 2008 10:59
----------------------------------------------------
> Ok, I got an email from George Dennis. He converted the Max 5 patch to Max 4. As far as I can see it works as it should, although on PPC there is the same playback bug as in Max 5 before version 5.0.2.
>
> I asked him to post it here so I hope we'll see it soon..
>
>
> >
> > congratulations on the oo objects btw! they seem to be just what the doctor prescribed to maintain one's sanity while working on bigger patches.
>
> Thanks :) Credits to John Pitcairn for that, too.
>
> Mattijs
>
>
----------------------------------------------------
Hi all,
Yup, here's a Max 4 version of the patch. Not quite as pretty as the original due to a lack of a Presentation Mode, but everything else should be there.
Best,
George
I've tried both the Max 4 and Max 5 versions and neither works for me. The symptoms are similar to those mentioned before: waveform seems to load normally (displays normally), and there are no errors in the Max window, but the only sound I hear is some low clicking if I move the sliders around.
I'm using a G5 dual 2.7, OS 10.5.3
Max 4.6.3 and 5.0.2
Any ideas?
Ok, thanks for your report, paloma.
I didn't test the patch on a PPC with Mac OS 10.5, so my guess is that the PPC bug that was fixed in Max 5.0.2 has only been fixed for Windows and Mac OS 10.4, not for Mac OS 10.5.
I will try to reproduce this as soon as I get my hands on a 10.5 machine. I would be happy if someone from cycling '74 could give this a try too. (suspected) Steps to reproduce:
1) download the latest granular patch (version 008) for Max 5 from my user page
2) open it in Max 5.0.2 on Mac OS 10.5.3 on a PPC or with Rosetta on an Intel.
3) press the read button; no sound is played, but it should.
As for Max 4.6, I can confirm that the patch converted by George is not working on PPC on Mac OS 10.4.11, due to the same Max bug that was fixed in Max 5.0.2. I don't know if cycling '74 is still fixing bugs in Max 4 though..
Mattijs
Quote: paloma wrote on Thu, 19 June 2008 10:42
----------------------------------------------------
> I've tried both the Max 4 and Max 5 versions and neither works for me. The symptoms are similar to those mentioned before: waveform seems to load normally (displays normally), and there are no errors in the Max window, but the only sound I hear is some low clicking if I move the sliders around.
>
> I'm using a G5 dual 2.7, OS 10.5.3
> Max 4.6.3 and 5.0.2
>
> Any ideas?
>
> s
----------------------------------------------------
One problem I had was the use of the import message to load the buffer. When I switched to 'replace', the patch worked fine.
Quote: Nick Inhofe wrote on Thu, 19 June 2008 19:17
----------------------------------------------------
> One problem I had was the use of the import message to load the buffer. When I switched to 'replace', the patch worked fine.
----------------------------------------------------
In the latest version of the time stretcher (008) I replaced import with replace since import uses the quicktime libary.
[quote]
1) download the latest granular patch (version 008) for Max 5 from my user page
2) open it in Max 5.0.2 on Mac OS 10.5.3 on a PPC or with Rosetta on an Intel.
3) press the read button; no sound is played, but it should.
[/quote]
I can confirm this problem on a G4 Powerbook running Max 5.0.2, Mac OS 10.5.3. I turned off vector optimization: once, the patch did produce sound, though it was very choppy. I had to restart the computer at that point (unrelated to Max, I'm pretty sure) and since then, I haven't been able to get any sound other than the low clicking described by paloma.
Thanks it's really great... works no problem on vista.
I've just tested the timestretcher in Max 5 on my Macbook running OS 10.5.3, and it runs flawlessly. So I guess there is no inherent incompatibility with 10.5.3, but somehow the combination of PowerPC and 10.5 causes a problem.
Quote: paloma wrote on Sun, 22 June 2008 21:30
----------------------------------------------------
> I've just tested the timestretcher in Max 5 on my Macbook running OS 10.5.3, and it runs flawlessly. So I guess there is no inherent incompatibility with 10.5.3, but somehow the combination of PowerPC and 10.5 causes a problem.
>
> s
----------------------------------------------------
Hey, thanks for that info!
Could you try this for me: right-click MaxMSP.app in the Max 5 folder, enable Open using Rosetta, then try the patch again. Is there a problem that way?
Mattijs
Runs fine under Rosetta (Max 5.0.2, OS 10.5.3, Macbook 2GHz).
Quote: paloma wrote on Sun, 22 June 2008 23:59
----------------------------------------------------
> Runs fine under Rosetta (Max 5.0.2, OS 10.5.3, Macbook 2GHz).
>
> s
----------------------------------------------------
Hm. Bummer. So I'll have to locate an actual PowerPC with 10.5.
Mattijs
Hi,
Just wondering if you've had a chance to debug the timestretcher for PowerPC + OS 10.5? Would love to use it on my desktop.
Quote: paloma wrote on Tue, 08 July 2008 21:17
----------------------------------------------------
> Hi,
>
> Just wondering if you've had a chance to debug the timestretcher for PowerPC + OS 10.5? Would love to use it on my desktop.
>
> s
----------------------------------------------------
Not yet, paloma. I didn't find a ppc with 10.5 yet. Anyone near Amsterdam that has one?
Of course it's a max patch, i.e. open source. So if anyone with some msp experience and a ppc and 10.5 has some time.. for example the folks from cycling '74?
Mattijs
:-D Great!
Hey RabidRaja,
You have a very good point with the 96 KHz issue. Thanks for the report.
It took me some time to reproduce. As it seems, the issue doesn't arise when the sample rate is switched to 96 KHz after the patch was opened, only when the sample rate was at 96 KHz before opening the patch. I have the feeling this has something to do with the way buffer~ handles sample rate changes.
I will report back when I fixed this.
Cheers,
Mattijs
Quote: RabidRaja wrote on Fri, 11 July 2008 03:58
----------------------------------------------------
> This is really sweet! Especially in Max5, so easy to move around and look at what you've done. There is a drastic difference, though, between the sound-quality at 96k sampling-rate as opposed to 44.1k or 48k. Seems to degrade the sound so much rather than improve it when switched to a higher sampling-rate. Was just wondering why this is?(is it the windowing? maybe if the window was greater than(or,if I'm confusing myself, lesser than) 512 samples long(maybe 1024 or even 2048 samples?) it would be more conducive to the higher-sampling rates?). S'all good, though, I don't really use 96k much, anyways. Thanks so much for this! It's really beautiful work!
----------------------------------------------------
Hi Mattijs
Im a fresh newbie using osx 10.4.11 on a ppc g4 1.5ghz
I am using a 30 day demo version of Max5.02 (34989) as I wanted to check out the timestretch patch you created
I have a similar problem to others
I have the same dsp settings as earlier reported
I cannot get audio output from the patch when a sample is loaded and the loop cycles.
It would be great to know if there is a solution to this for Max5.02 on ppc 10.4.11
thanks for creating this patch ;)
Wooly
if you are having problems getting audio with this patch, follow these clear and simple steps:
-Get out of presentation mode by clicking the 4th button from the left on the bottom of the patcher window.
-Hit apple-E to unlock the patcher.
-On the right hand side you will see a buffer~ object with an import message connected to it. Change the import message to say 'replace'.
-Now try and see if it works.
For w/e reaosn, import gives me problems. I don't see why it would be used instead of replace. I am certain it has advantages over replace, but I have yet to explore its purpose.
Hi
Thanks for your response.
I tried using import or replace but still no audio.
I can play other patches but not this one.
Thanks in advance ;)
W
Quote: wooly wrote on Sun, 13 July 2008 19:56
----------------------------------------------------
> Hi
>
> Thanks for your response.
>
> I tried using import or replace but still no audio.
> I can play other patches but not this one.
>
>
> Thanks in advance ;)
>
> W
----------------------------------------------------
Please check two things:
1) Did you download the latest version from my user page (008)?
2) Do you have the latest version of Max 5 (5.0.3)?
Mattijs
FYI, these steps shouldn't be necessary with the latest versions of the time stretcher and Max.
Mattijs
Quote: ComfortableInClouds wrote on Sun, 13 July 2008 19:30
----------------------------------------------------
> if you are having problems getting audio with this patch, follow these clear and simple steps:
>
> -Get out of presentation mode by clicking the 4th button from the left on the bottom of the patcher window.
>
> -Hit apple-E to unlock the patcher.
>
> -On the right hand side you will see a buffer~ object with an import message connected to it. Change the import message to say 'replace'.
>
> -Now try and see if it works.
>
>
> For w/e reaosn, import gives me problems. I don't see why it would be used instead of replace. I am certain it has advantages over replace, but I have yet to explore its purpose.
----------------------------------------------------
Hi Mattijs
I have version 008 from your page but I have 5.02 demo
I'll download the latest demo and try that
I'll let you know
Thanks
w
The bug reported by RabidRaja (the patch didn't work correctly with sample rates other than 44100 Hz) has been fixed in version 009 of the patch, that you can now download from my user page:
Best,
Mattijs
Quote: Mattijs wrote on Fri, 11 July 2008 12:16
----------------------------------------------------
> Hey RabidRaja,
>
> You have a very good point with the 96 KHz issue. Thanks for the report.
>
> It took me some time to reproduce. As it seems, the issue doesn't arise when the sample rate is switched to 96 KHz after the patch was opened, only when the sample rate was at 96 KHz before opening the patch. I have the feeling this has something to do with the way buffer~ handles sample rate changes.
>
> I will report back when I fixed this.
>
> Cheers,
> Mattijs
>
> Quote: RabidRaja wrote on Fri, 11 July 2008 03:58
> ----------------------------------------------------
> > This is really sweet! Especially in Max5, so easy to move around and look at what you've done. There is a drastic difference, though, between the sound-quality at 96k sampling-rate as opposed to 44.1k or 48k. Seems to degrade the sound so much rather than improve it when switched to a higher sampling-rate. Was just wondering why this is?(is it the windowing? maybe if the window was greater than(or,if I'm confusing myself, lesser than) 512 samples long(maybe 1024 or even 2048 samples?) it would be more conducive to the higher-sampling rates?). S'all good, though, I don't really use 96k much, anyways. Thanks so much for this! It's really beautiful work!
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
>
----------------------------------------------------
Hi again Mattijs
I have now your version 009 and Max5.03 and still no audio on my ppc 10.4.11
I have tried loading different audio files (which show in the audio looper.
Is there anything else I can try or give you more information?
Thanks in advance for being helpful :)
W
Quote: Mattijs wrote on Sun, 13 July 2008 12:55
----------------------------------------------------
> Quote: wooly wrote on Sun, 13 July 2008 19:56
> ----------------------------------------------------
> > Hi
> >
> > Thanks for your response.
> >
> > I tried using import or replace but still no audio.
> > I can play other patches but not this one.
> >
> >
> > Thanks in advance ;)
> >
> > W
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Please check two things:
> 1) Did you download the latest version from my user page (008)?
> 2) Do you have the latest version of Max 5 (5.0.3)?
>
> Mattijs
----------------------------------------------------
Hi Mattijs
just getting the hang of using this forum properly ! (hence the quote to respond)
I now have your version 009 and max5.03 but still no joy with audio playback - if anyone has similar problems/issues it would be good to hear of them and possible solutions.
In the meantime I am trying to get a windows xp machine to see if I have better luck.
will report back with results on doz
W
HI Mattijs
I am now trying win xp (as I couldnt get osx 10.4.11 to work for me as earlier reported) but i noticed the pitch~ at CNMAT seems only available for osx
do you know how other xp users got your patch to work under xp?
Thanks
W