Yuni

I’ve got a question about the Shepard Tone object/patch of CNMAT or just the Shepard tone in Max/MSP. What I want is to hear the sound of, for example, a violin or a saxophone and not that output of the sinusoids. I really don’t know I’ve that’s possible. 

What I just want, is to play the sound of an instrument, like a violin or sax, in the tones of Shepard (or Risset). 

Could someone help me? I’m really a newbie with Max/Msp.

(working with max/msp 4.5 on a Windows XP computer)

I’ve got a question about the Shepard Tone object/patch of CNMAT or just the Shepard tone in Max/MSP. What I want is to hear the sound of, for example, a violin or a saxophone and not that output of the sinusoids. I really don’t know I’ve that’s possible. 
What I just want, is to play the sound of an instrument, like a violin or sax, in the tones of Shepard (or Risset). 
Could someone help me? I’m really a newbie with Max/Msp.

(working with max/msp 4.5 on a Windows XP computer)


shepard-tone-played-by-an-instrument

It's a pretty detailed process to try and explain and there are many ways to do this but since I haven't done this, all I could tell you is that you might be able to do this either by taking a sample of a violin, etc. looping a small section of it in order to achieve the timbre of the violin and then applying that to a shepard-tone patch somehow or perhaps even try it within some kind of FFT algorithm that would also achieve shepard-tone-like-pitch-shifting. Maybe someone else here who has already created this will answer your post, though, you never know...

I would definitely try contacting the people at CNMAT, they created the patch as well as the sinusoids~ object on which it depends.

It is definitely possible, though. Best of luck.

I would definitely try contacting the people at CNMAT, they created the patch as well as the sinusoids~ object on which it depends.
http://cnmat.berkeley.edu/patch/4009

It is definitely possible, though. Best of luck.


> It's a pretty detailed process to try and explain and there are 

> many ways to do this but since I haven't done this, all I could 

> tell you is that you might be able to do this either by taking a 

> sample of a violin, etc. looping a small section of it in order to 

> achieve the timbre of the violin and then applying that to a 

> shepard-tone patch somehow or perhaps even try it within some kind 

> of FFT algorithm that would also achieve shepard-tone-like-pitch- 

> shifting. Maybe someone else here who has already created this will 

> answer your post, though, you never know...

> It is definitely possible, though. Best of luck.

while it is certainly possible to use a sound with any combination of 

partials to feed the glissando machine, the auditory illusion of the 

ever rising/falling glissando will only work with a sound whose 

partials are spaced apart by the same interval - preferably an octave 

On 07 Aug 2008, at 00:53, raja wrote:
>
> It's a pretty detailed process to try and explain and there are  
> many ways to do this but since I haven't done this, all I could  
> tell you is that you might be able to do this either by taking a  
> sample of a violin, etc. looping a small section of it in order to  
> achieve the timbre of the violin and then applying that to a  
> shepard-tone patch somehow or perhaps even try it within some kind  
> of FFT algorithm that would also achieve shepard-tone-like-pitch- 
> shifting. Maybe someone else here who has already created this will  
> answer your post, though, you never know...
>
> It is definitely possible, though. Best of luck.
>

hm...
while it is certainly possible to use a sound with any combination of  
partials to feed the glissando machine, the auditory illusion of the  
ever rising/falling glissando will only work with a sound whose  
partials are spaced apart by the same interval - preferably an octave  
(partials 1, 2, 4, 8, 16 etc.).

> Could someone help me? I'm really a newbie with Max/Msp.

Max expertise alone wouldn't help in this case. The shepard tone uses a 

specific overtone structure and mixture to get you into this illusion.

The original is sliding a fundamental and its overtones while fading in 

the lower and fading out the higher partials. As soon the highest 

partial is silent, you fade it in again on the lower end...

On option is to record a real slide over two octaves of the given 

instrument (hard to play for the sax...) and create at least three 

copies, which have to be in an exact overtone relationship with the 

others. Main problem would be to play a steady slide, which has exactly 

the same interval/time over the complete 2 octaves. The other option is 

to create the move with a gizmo~ pitch shift, that would allow to do an 

exact move, but will introduce some artefacts to the sound...

Nicolette schrieb:
> Could someone help me? I'm really a newbie with Max/Msp.

Max expertise alone wouldn't help in this case. The shepard tone uses a 
specific overtone structure and mixture to get you into this illusion.
The original is sliding a fundamental and its overtones while fading in 
the lower and fading out the higher partials. As soon the highest 
partial is silent, you fade it in again on the lower end...
On option is to record a real slide over two octaves of the given 
instrument (hard to play for the sax...) and create at least three 
copies, which have to be in an exact overtone relationship with the 
others. Main problem would be to play a steady slide, which has exactly 
the same interval/time over the complete 2 octaves. The other option is 
to create the move with a gizmo~ pitch shift, that would allow to do an 
exact move, but will introduce some artefacts to the sound...

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com


Mmmm..thanks for the comments and advises, but I think I gone skip this idea. My knowledge of Max/MSP is not so far jet. But if someone want's to work out this "problem"/idea, be my guest :).

You might have success with a cross-fade in the frequency domain. I believe this was essentially the technique used to recreate the castrato voice in Farinelli.

I made some plugins that do this. There is a shepard tone ring modulator, flanger, phasor and pitch shifter:

http://www.olilarkin.co.uk/index.php?p=eseries

I made some plugins that do this. There is a shepard tone ring modulator, flanger, phasor and pitch shifter: 

maybe a convolution of instrument sound and Shepard tone can be a simple workaround

check this : http://pan-etc.net/res/dev/glissando.zip
it's not perfect but works well...


i disagree with the idea that the effect of the continiously rising 

tone would work only with a certain overtone structure/timbre.

it is almost as cool with a saxophone sample or even a drumloop.

and it also works when the distance between the tones is 1.377 octaves,

it is a just a bit a different effect than in the "original" (wtf.)

oh, did i mention that 110.modular has a shepard generator which 

outputs fade in/fade out data for each of the stages?

i disagree with the idea that the effect of the continiously rising 
tone would work only with a certain overtone structure/timbre.

and it also works when the distance between the tones is 1.377 octaves,
it is a just a bit a different effect than in the "original" (wtf.)

oh, did i mention that 110.modular has a shepard generator which 
outputs fade in/fade out data for each of the stages?

I'm afraid the link to Glissando.zip seems to be broken.

Roman Thilenius wrote on Fri, 28 August 2009 23:37

Shepard tone played by an instrument?