sound synthesis of the Synclavier II as Max/msp-patch~


    Jun 08 2015 | 4:02 am
    this could be a little bit tricky:
    we 're looking for models which describe the special kind of soundsynthesis in the Synclavier II
    as we see in the blockdiagram, the box where should be declared as the carrier they call them as modulator(?)
    in the attachment the blockdiagram "Freiwillige vor!" any patches, assistance etc are welcome
    thanks

    • Jun 08 2015 | 9:09 am
    • Jun 10 2015 | 9:02 am
      @Ernest thanks for the tip with Godel2 -> Synclavier(?)
      but at 1st: I've got now one question:
      is it possible and how (patches, small tests are welcome) to build an oscillator under Max/msp with variable SR - like the soundsynthesis of the Synclavier?
      thank you TSt
    • Jul 06 2015 | 9:17 am
      @Ernest you wrote in the last time, that's not possible, please describe this more detailed
      we need for studies a patch (unfortunately the vb.fbosc2~ doesn't exist as a win-external) which describes the phase modulation and this could be one key to understand the soundsynthesis of the Synclavier (in my opinion, this principle was also been used in Yamaha -GS-1 (?)), at this moment we don't use the advantages by Gen - the usage of these features will be come later after some training and tasks
      thank you
    • Jul 07 2015 | 5:37 am
      you dont want it to use gen~,, I can only assume you are using cracked software, as gen~ is included in all standard distributions.
      You are welcome to rewrite it in C+ as an external for yourself,. My implementation requires gen~. I dont support other implementations in open source, and frankly I find your tone offensive and motives dubious.
    • Jul 07 2015 | 6:46 am
      @Ernest, do you've read that e.g. this external vb.fbosc2~could be the solution (by Mr. V. Boehm)? unfortunately, he has only some of them port to the win-platform (-> maxobjects.com)
      vb.fbosc2~ has the choice to connect also the controlinputs of this external with signal in vb.fbosc~ the ctrl-inp accepts only Max-messages(?)
      one hint could be, to adapt your oscillatormodel as a kind of the Yamaha GS- architecture, this is a good base to prepare the FM-synthesis, maybe for the Synclavier II etc. (of course GS and NED using phase-modulation for the FM - see the files in the attachment)
      sure, Gen is a great weapon under Maxmsp but at this time I'm using this only to learn the principles, terms etc. , but the daily tasks will be realize with "normal" patchers (like a breadboard)
      see you later TSt
    • Jul 07 2015 | 11:32 am
      I'm terribly sorry, but I cant communicate with you on this. Please try to find someone who speaks your own language or something.
    • Jul 07 2015 | 11:43 am
      the fact is Ernest, we'll find a practicable solution for this oscillatormodel, but at this time we're too busy (other topics has higher priority)
    • Jul 07 2015 | 11:57 am
      When you learn a little more, you will understand, it is not possible to implement custom oscillators requiring single-cycle feedback in the max environment, except in gen~ or as an external.. As I explained, I am not making an external. I said it twice now. And after you wrote me personally, you started posting in this forum instead of my own.
      I dont expect you to understand that for quite a while, but when you do, you will also realize what you wrote to me is not only almost incompressible, but also quite rude. What you basically did was order me to write an external, which would probably take me several weeks, like you are God almoghty because you are designing something, and I should obey your every whim, You never even said please or thank you. Then you didnt apologize and blew me off.
      Good luck.
    • Jul 07 2015 | 12:10 pm
      so is that really true Ernest, that at this point Maxmsp gives us again a "barrier" (except we are willing to use the Gen-alternative)? sure, some weeks ago I've spoken with a another german Maxmsp-user about this problem and he gave me a similar answer
      I'll inform you, if the vb.fbosc2~ from Volker Böhm is available to all platforms (osx and win, at this time exists only an osx-external)
      cheers TSt
    • Jul 07 2015 | 7:38 pm
      Hi while I might not understand the finer details of this thread, I don't think that Max is a 'barrier' (except for gen). Gen isn't a special arcane reserve, it's an enhancement and extension to Max. Besides having to learn the names and functions of some new operators, gen is pretty much the same programming paradigm as Max. I cannot yet understand what your request is (not being privy to your off forum conversation), but phase modulation in either Max or gen is trivial. Real-time SR conversion would be trickier for me, however. I'm not offering my services, such as they might be, just saying' is all:
      Brendan
    • Jul 07 2015 | 8:33 pm
      @Brendan, thats correct, but after some studies about the fm-synthesis and especially the purpose of the phase-modulation
      some friends, who have also some experiences in Maxmsp said to me, that a practical usage of the phase-modulation will only be possible under Gen(?) but not in the "normal" patcher environment(?)
      if you have an abtraction for a model (without the usage of Gen) which describes the, we describe it as, "fm-phase-modulation" you are welcome and please post a pm, or maybe you kow some helpful link
      and: one reason for this desicion is also: since Maxmsp ver.5 you can't compile vst ,vsti as a dll-file anymore (under win7 the vst-plugins are dll-libraries) (outdated Pluggo and the whole drama - no comment) so I can't using Gen, because Maxmsp vers. 5 doesn't know Gen
      the plan is to realize a basic model from the Synclavier of his special-fm synthesis used by the NED-Synclavier-Systems to understand their differences and the choice to compare it with the "regular" fm-synthesis we know that one partial (or shall I better say operator?) consists 24 carriers but connect to only one modulator and the interaction between carriers and the modulator is the principle of the phase-modulation -> see this schematic of the Synclavier-Syn-architecture in this thread above http://1cyjknyddcx62agyb002-c74projects.s3.amazonaws.com/files/2015/06/Synclavier_synthschem.jpg
      thanks for your help and regards TSt
    • Jul 07 2015 | 9:30 pm
      First of all the shit ain’t hot if you ain’t got that kick and snare going. You gotta have that melody, don’t go too hard on the sounds. Keep that shit funky. If it ain’t mixed down don’t put that shit out there. Make sure you got some good breaks in there and you all the way nice. Get at ya boy with any questions or any info.
    • Jul 08 2015 | 7:39 am
      thank you brendan )
    • Jul 08 2015 | 11:25 am
      Hi I'm afraid that the schematic is a little complicated (for me) and I might be out of my depth. The patch below demonstrates 2 simple methods for phase modulation of a sine wave (modulator), each producing different results: phase modulation using cycle~'s right inlet produces pitch mod, as expected; phase modulation of the oscillator's output, however, produces wave distortion (wrapping with %~). But I suspect you have already tried these methods. I will echo Ernest's advice to at least try Gen; maybe you know someone who has Max 6/7 on their machine.
      HTH Brendan
    • Jul 08 2015 | 2:31 pm
      @Brendan: thank you for this example, I'll inform you, if the next results are ready I've got not only Maxmsp ver.5 (this ver. is useful to compile patches as vst, vsti) the Maxmsp + Gen ver.7 I've got too (I'm own and use Max since 1994)
      yes, this schematic is a little bit difficult (you mean the Synclavier-Syn-architecture posted above in this thread isn't it? http://1cyjknyddcx62agyb002-c74projects.s3.amazonaws.com/files/2015/07/Synclavier_II_synthschem.jpg)
      cheers TSt