Time and Pitch Manipulation in Max 7
The latest preview video includes a brief demonstration of Max 7’s ability to manipulate pitch and time independently. I thought I'd take this opportu
[See the full post at: Time and Pitch Manipulation in Max 7]
Hi Herzog!!!
This, is big jazz.
Massively looking forwad to see just what "complex warping" can be done with this.
Able to let slip the release date yet?
Sorry. Still "mehh" on this.
well I'm not. Having it integrate into the vanilla set, and the offline one, that's pretty huge to me.
After further research, I may have to reconsider my opinion.
(I find myself saying this a lot recently)
Are you going from "mehh" to "yeah"? ;-)
OT
I am an "intransigent wheel-reinventor", and as such I am naturally dismissive of tools that do more stuff for me so I don't have to. This is only a reflection of my limited programming chops, I learn by doing. Furthermore, I'm not as artistically active (with Max) as many others here are, so embedded functionality like the above (which is very cool btw) isn't important to me. And Sam sounded stoned, waxing lyrical in an uncharacteristically Proustian vein, and I was hoping for more of his zany whacky shenanigans, and that pissed me off too. So, in summary, apologies for the noise.
If I had to build my own real-time transient-detecting tempo-syncable beat-matching time-stretching re-pitcher, it would take me . . . . a very long time.
If David Z ditches the menu wheel, I will buy Max 7. If not, I won't.
Is there any place with more "specific information" for the changes that come in Max 7.
It is this very cute, but it should be another channel for us to present things in a more specific way.
Among great successes and wonderful features implemented, some unilateral and arbitrary decisions have been cycling74 not very nice.
End Pluggo, Detonate (when he lost his interface for many years) are the things that come to mind right now.
some unilateral and arbitrary decisions have been cycling74 not very nice.
End Pluggo, Detonate (when he lost his interface for many years) are the things that come to mind right now.
You can add the menu wheel. Added while there is so little addition to the basic way you patch. No shortcuts. Menu/action hided not available for editing in the Mac preferences. No auto patch system.
We can easily imagine the Cycling team spending days discussing about extraordinary features that would be extraordinary to add but never patching or using their software... (Ok, maybe a little bit exaggerated but not so much ;) )
Brendon - I found your post pretty On Topic and quite interesting to read.
My own programming skills are way behind yours. I therefore appreciate the benefit that any shortcuts including tools like this will bring. It won't help me become a better programmer but it will help me to produce the sounds I want to make. Possibly. Hopefully. Insert smiley face.
I am with you on the wheel. The more I do program and the more complex/cluttered my patches are the more often it annoyingly pops up. That said I will buy the upgrade to 7 regardless of wheter it stays or goes.
Wendycarlos - if you look through this forum you will find a very detailed post about the changes / new features that will come with 7.
Yes of course FOLDH, I follow this thread since it was posted.
But I mean major changes in the objects we use at least. Suppose someone is investing their time in writing an external and soon there will be a "vanilla" object will have that functionality.
Ah, I see what you mean. I don't want to sound glib but I suppose that is a risk people have to decide whether or not to take. I imagine it has happened before over the years. And who knoes, their solution might be a better on than C74's!
Knows and one of course. ...typing on a rickety train..
Although I like building and customizing my own time stretch/pitchshift effects I must say I am excited about this. The sound quality sounds awesome. Not something I would reproduce myself.
Wow, I'm probably the only person on the planet who loves the menu wheel.
Honestly I can't recall the last time I even *saw* the wheel, let alone recall the last time it got in my way.
Place multiple objects in close proximity. Then try to connect them together, then select various connections. Bloody little blue arrows and menu wheel constantly intruding.
Yes it is exactly that. I too used to wonder what all the fuss was about when people were complaining about the wheel but as soon as you have a few objects close to each other up it will pop. Over and over.
I don't necessarily think C74 need ditch it altogether, some folks might find it useful, but a global option to set it to "off" would be appreciated.
Those sounds sound sound.
Let me add my worthless advice on the rest : recently, i found the color wheel usefull when working with jitter to check the state of various attributes in a glance, jitter objects have so many of those,or to clic make appear the attribute. On reinventing the wheel : sometimes i want to do it all myself, then i realize its a lot of time and others have done it better surely so why bother ? I dont know i want to. Then a max beginner shows me what he's done and its amazing and he didnt try to reinvent the wheel then i think i should do like this. In the end i don't know.
I am almost lost in the wheel of confusion after that...
/random Sabs ref for the day
/random Sabs ref for the day
Dude, we should make that an actual thing here.
btw, what was this thread about originally? LOL
Do you guys have the wheel minimized? I'm literally not seeing it pop up at all after doing what you described. On the wheel preferences check "Show Wheel After Click."
I do see the blue arrows on the cables showing up though.
Of course, it's supposed to. But the area to make it show up is so tiny that I even have to try to make it pop up. Just moving the mouse quickly over objects never makes it show up for me. I have to deliberately make it appear. Sorry, it doesn't work like that for you.
By far the most common activity in Max, based as it is on an explicitly modular paradigm, is connecting objects and deleting/altering those connections. The menu wheel, and the blue arrows, are by far the most irritating unsolicited and pointless visual aids/shortcuts. I continually find my workflow interrupted by them. And there is NO option to hide them. Rather than enhancing functionality and workflow, with one errant click or drag, I regularly find myself looking at a settings window that I didn't intend to ask for.
To each their own, of course
[edit] and for those working to tight deadlines/budgets, or in more structured activities I'm sure these additions, once learned, are invaluable.
;)
> The menu wheel, and the blue arrows, are by far the most irritating unsolicited and pointless visual aids/shortcuts.
+ 1
Now with calendar!
I'm a little surprised to see so much discussion of the wheel menu here. I don't think I'm giving away to much to say that in Max 7, there's no wheel, but there is a handy menu (with a much smaller button to access it) that's actually really useful. Now, with that out of the way, let's talk about realtime timestretching, pitch shifting, and intonation correction, shall we?
I can sympathize with the posts that talk about reinventing wheels, but I suspect everyone will fall in love with these features after using them a few times.
Good to hear we are seeing the back of the wheel. Yes it has taken over this thread - and dominated some others - that is because some people feel quite strongly about it.
Anyway - onwards! I am very much looking forward into getting into some extreme pitch/time stretching action. As for intonation correction I will be looking to find ways to FSU with it ;)
Any chance of giving us an approximate release date?
Hi Andrew
it's all grist to the PR mill. And we're in Miscellany too aren't we? And we all LOVE Max, nicht wahr? And we all have a hard/wide-on for Max 7
;P
Now, with that out of the way, let’s talk about realtime timestretching, pitch shifting, and intonation correction, shall we?
Does it have to do with the Ircam algorithms SuperVP ? Or is it something totally different ?
(Good news concerning the end of the wheel ! Just that is enough for me to quickly upgrade)
>if we knew more about the algorithm used(just basics, nothing proprietarily in-depth)
that's the issue right there - the internet is a great jibber-jabber machine, but we really do work best if we have some solid starting points, at least.
Here, people have been talking about that bloody wheel because *that* is a known factor already. This is a very well-known problem with "teaser campaigns", where so little is said that we just can't be arsed to make up the rest of the story ourselves.
For the love of GOD won't somebody leak the reference for max7 so we can talk about max 7 instead?
I may have dreamt this - and dreaming made it so - but I think I read it is an implementation of Dirac?
I hope that a new release will allow for an timestretch / resample (in any ratio) of a buffer "on the fly ".
It would be cool if Max7 had an "auto patch" option with which you could select 2 objects, press a combination of keys and voilà— that would be incredible and would save lots of patching time (please don't tell me it already exists, shit!). Also, more advanced options for automatising cord alignment and stuff like that would be neat-o.
[in conclusion: since Max 4.x, the design team have clearly been pursuing a more inclusive programming paradigm as Max evolves, for n00bs, hobbyists, and coders alike. For example, Max4Live for the former (and latter via the API), gen codebox for the latter. The features revealed by this thread are designed to entice both camps, I feel. Oh, and bye-bye little wheel]
That seems pretty accurate Brendan. I think it's also a good strategy - more users of Max is good for everyone. And as someone who teaches beginner Max classes solving the problem of 'how do I play a sound file' easily, and with some flexibility is a good thing.
I wonder if C74 ever flirt with the idea of opening up the development process to us a bit more, ie explaining what they are working on and why it is important. Users actually getting to vote for features they think important would be interesting, noise on the forums is one thing, but real data is another. I remember looking at the feature request/bug reporting system for Ardour a while ago and it made me wonder why commercial companies couldn't work in the same way.
For the love of GOD won’t somebody leak the reference for max7 so we can talk about max 7 instead?
+1
It's Dirac algorithms as mentioned in Stephan's blog post.
@mark I'd rather we NOT get a say in the development. Vocal minorities are the worst - and yes, that's us.
I'd like a peep hole of sorts. You know at construction sites, where they have the little windows, so you can keep up with the build? That's all I ever want.
@wetterberg Yeah, I know what you mean. And of course, most of the time we probably don't know best. I'd just love to see some real figures - like x users are interested in this, x want this etc. As the uses of Max are some diverse this is even more important.
(resisting urge to write list of what I want here)
But I'm well interested in the new pitch manipulation stuff. Also hoping the new Jitter changes will make getting into Jitter easier for me. I dabbled, but the gl conversion stuff got complex quickly - time spent started to outweigh potential reward.
For the love of GOD won’t somebody leak the reference for max7 so we can talk about max 7 instead?
+1
PS:
Björk Met Attenborough
+1
Björk Met Fisherprice
-1
+1 for the manual. I immediately bought Max 6 when it got released with the free Max 7 upgrade, although my 12 month subscription was still running.
Now my money is gone for many months now and I don't have anything new :)
psh, you've got max - if you want something new, just build it ;)
very true! So let me rephrase my sentence:
When do we finally get Max 7?? By coincidence my patch needs all technologies new in Max 7...I really wish I wasn't this innovating and creative.
Will 2d.wave~ also be fully integrated with the new zero-latency time and pitch engine in Max7?
Some more details on this would be greatly appreciated. Will the stretching engine allow for time freezing? I'd imagine it stretches using cross-fading grains--can one adjust the grain-size? The fade? I have a university project that relies on a granular time-stretching algorithm, before I put more effort into my algorithm I'd love to know what to expect from this one. Thanks!
Anybody has a link to a paper about the basic dirac algorithm?
cheers!
Not very fond of the new look of the program, the objects for example look
like a text field or something from version 4.
Generally i don't see what is the point behind the constant image change.
The pitch-time thingy is a plus, but probably a minor thing since one either
starts bringing forth truly high level abstractions or keeps on making more low level tools.
I hope there will be a proper way to categorise and see externals, something that was broken with version
5 which imho is important.
I have to say I do like the retro look of Max 7 a lot (especially the new slider object). The difference between objects and messages is much more clear.
@ WOYTEG
Have you taken a look at the website?
http://dirac.dspdimension.com/Dirac3_Technology_Home_Page/Dirac3_Technology.html
I agree, I think the scheme looks really great, and the squared objects are really functional. It's very vvvv-looking too, which I like.