Audio Plugin Use
As part of ongoing development and QA of our plug-in hosting, I’d like to get a better idea of what people are using.
Feel free to blaze away…
No one uses VST or AU plugs?
That makes it kinda easy
Not really sure what you’re asking for. Do you want to know what plugs we use, whether we use VST or AU, or what application we use to host them?
Yeah I want to know what plugs you use in MaxMSP
Lots of Soundhack effects; plus some Smartelectronix effects like Crazy Ivan, Supatrigga, and KTgranulator. I use "audiounit~" to bring them into Max. Hope that helps-
I rarely (bordering heavily on ‘never’) use VST or AU plugs in Max.
I’d be slightly more likely to use them in a Max patch that I could pull into a DAW ala Max4Live, except that I don’t use Live.
I’d be much more interested in going the other direction – writing max patches that can, say, write automation in interesting ways to any plugin of the user’s choosing.
Are you asking because you guys might drop support entirely for running plugins within Max? Even though I don’t use them much, I’d think that’d be a bad idea – just because I haven’t thought of a use for it yet doesn’t mean I don’t want to lose that opportunity if something occurs to me.
yes, i am more interested in the other direction please, like the rebirth of pluggo?!
sorry, cheeky, but 3 years on and it is still true.
with regards hosting in max: i rarely (almost never) do it, largely to do with various boring factors related to me and unrelated to this thread. however, i would use max for hosting/testing plugs more often if it was quick and easy. i mean, max is the first program i open and the last program close. it is always open. but if i need to test a vst or au quickly i open some other software. because it is easier. sure, i know the idea of max is that we build our abstractions and save them for later use, but i tend to despise anything i built longer than about 2 weeks ago.
so, what i would like to see is: a new rtas~ object, a new mas~ object, and most importantly of all a new lv2~ object (in preparation of your imminent linux release?!). then i would like to see one excellent solid tested abstraction which is a go to host~ for dropping in plugin types of all shapes and sizes and channel counts and data inputs/outputs and creating automatic max style interfaces but with the ability to hit the ‘edit’ button and open the standard vst/au/rtas/mas/lv2/whatever interface.
that would make max the most useful and goto app for testing / hosting plugs.
of course i realise the ridiculousness of my post. i just wanted to say it all anyway.
glad you ask
• I actually use VST plug-ins inside max very often, I know I am not the only one to do so (a lot of musicians with whom I collaborate do it as well) and I often use this argument to "attract" some musicians to max (it is easy to load a VST, much easier that to program an "ok" reverb, distortion or even delay, and then it is easy to control its parameters from the "outside world"). Never, so far, used the AU object, but I understand it works in a similar way. I hope you won’t drop vst~ object as it is a GREAT way to mix max programming with some easy ready-mades.
• As for those I use most often. GRM tools come to mind (their bandpass is the best bandpass i ever used), OhmForce (mainly their filters, Quad filter and Frohmage, distortions as well), Bertill is a great freeware, reverbs from Audio Damage (Eon is just great!! so pure!!!). Amplitube from IK. And a lot of freewares, mostly in the distortion family – it is difficult to build/hear a good distortion, close in its feel to the analog fuzz stompboxes. depending of the projects, others can be used as well
• Good you ask since I also use Native Instrument products – mainly Guitar Rig and Reaktor, and complained many times (send mails to the support) how those NI interact badly NOW with max (it was not the case in max4, that was great). Guitar Rig has a minor (but unfriendly) problem with its GUI, when the thing with Reaktor is even worse, a loading problem (see support cases 56664 and 59222 for a complete description – I probably also send messages about it on this forum). Now a new version is released (yesterday, 5.6) and the problem is still there – the result being that i don’t use Reaktor anymore (sure i can open it in AU~ but the CPU is much higher); I heard there is the same problem with Absynth…
• Last thing – a question about plug-ins/max brings of course to mind PLuggo. Which is dead, I know. But for those who bought it (and bought max as well) wouldn’t it be possible to give away the max patches used for the pluggo plug-ins? Would be nice (I know there was a way to "open" pluggos (some sort of hack..), I even did it once years ago, but I totally forgot how to do it…..). You should have those original patches on some hard disk, don’t you?
i use mostly instruments with vst~, effects simply need to much CPU when the vectorsize is small.
only request i had is waves preload for all the different versions of waveshell.
yes, everyone else is writing intelligent stuff and i agree with it all.
in my verbosity i forgot to say: vst3 support would be good, and a global concerted effort to develop further tim place’s ‘plugtastic’ environment.
@kaspar, i agree regarding pluggo patches. however, these are now mostly all released as part of maxforlive, so i guess they see them as still a commercial product. even though they could just be copied and pasted by any maxforlive user for you.
I’m using AUs which are built-in on Mac.
1. DLSMusicDevice for convenient handling of GM instruments.
2. NetSend/NetReceive for transmitting audio between different computers.
vst~ and Timothy Place’s audiounit~ are great for me in max/msp. I use them both regularly and can’t for audiounit~ to become official with a solid 1.0 release. It works pretty well now overall, mind you.
I’m on a Mac but I go back and forth between au and vst depending on the need.
On the vst~ side I primarily use PSPAudioware’s N2O multi-effect, NI Kontakt 4 for Scarbee Rhodes and NI FM8. Occasionally I’ll use EOS Reverb from Audio Damage.
On the audiounit~ side I use Madrona Labs Aalto which is an amazing expressive synthesizer. I’m currently working on a custom Snyderphonics Manta patch for it.
For me, vst~ and audiounit~ support in max/msp is integral – being abel to freely mix and match max/msp generated audio and pumping it through plug-ins is great. The opposite is also true – using plug-ins to generate audio that then gets manipulated with algorithms in max/msp – a very powerful combination!
I use plugins in Max all the time (and my customers do so as well, in my commercial standalones). I see use of a mix of the "big names" (e.g. Native Instruments, Arturia, iZotope, Waves, etc…). But don’t discount the "small names" as well – frankly that’s the beauty and appeal of plugins, that you can try all kinds of weird ones, some of which are absolute gems. So there’s all the Synthedit stuff for example, and before that, the joys of Pluggo-based plugs.
I know that’s not the answer you want, since it sounds like you’re trying to streamline/prioritize your testing – but that’s the reality.
This link might be helpful – don’t take it as gospel, but it gives a decent snapshot of some names (many of which are not from the big guys) of popular plugins:
@pid – i didn’t knew pluggos are now part of M4L….. I don’t use Live, and see no point in using it. However I for sure did bought Pluggo – would be greazt to re-use some of its trickery……
could anyone post the patches? (since, as said, i bought pluggo, i don’t think this would be "illegal"…)
I have successfully used Camel Audio’s Alchemy in the beta audiounit~, and MachV sampler in the vst~: probably some others but those I recall.
here we use vst~with some difficulties ( MAX_EVENTS_PER_BLOCK exceeded) with the NativeInstrument pack ( specially Absynth 4 and kontakt 5 ) and would be very interested in continuation of this
My aim here is to make sure that the stack of plugs I use for testing matches what you guys are using regularly. So far I’m aware of all the issues which have been mentioned here.
@larsen76 – I thought we sorted that one out. Please send me a patch which demonstrates it, I have both those plugs, and tell us about your version and OS
Andrew – I used to use u-he Zebra and a few of his others but they all had problems in max with menus. Whenever his plugin window was opened and you would try to select anything from a popup menu (at least on Mac) it would trigger an event in max/msp. Almost like his menu selections were getting mapped to some random max menu selection instead. I reported this but I don’t think it was ever resolved – a shame because he makes some great stuff.
this a very simple one with make vst~ with Absynth5: MAX_EVENTS_PER_BLOCK exceeded
MacBookPro Inetl core duo 2 2;8 Ghz 4go 1067Mhz
----------begin_max5_patcher---------- 462.3ocuUErbSCCD8r8WgFAGSyH4FWmAN0e.tvQJCiR7hi5XKErVGRoS4aGs R1PCjjlF7jC1x5sR6912tR9wzD9B6VvwYui8IVRxioIIAHBHoedBuQscYsxE VFuAbNUEvmDsgvVLhqK0vFvfLYwMLI6sxgkX5ZzlZ.C6OqGbsBWtRap9RKrD iwWJxmJlvjyEgAYVb1TA6y8aRWFBkcw8WkIFb+WsFznZffoaa0p5mEXaGNDY YOZDBeXMDCKm+a+Stxo+Qv.EdB8ozT50jSTdLv28z6eTmVkoz13cZwqWUhxQ dXnHHQYh8KJxhQSTzFbT0EzVUUC6M4kuXKQriHSbzb+lyJCGuRbCfsV10hys .KCoZ97iljyFsB7Bko5Rz4uwg+jMmcG+1EtGL3JVN6iHzB1odK2wOyKIxjAQ alL+nWR7pUqqOjb4zUFZWi0WzSs1gzH0I1CcfJBkrQXmZy.kdyGncP5avYVU YmQ+sNvK.SXzoFO59DcZ0ue2V+PT87w72+KHTAH7cK7NaW6xAdLbcL6O0fRv gZiB0VyyWzNqYktrDBlGxM+uPVa8hQOGNvgySkRzEBuHknCTWRNM6T3TwkkS EmRoS7evI+jmR+E2sjum -----------end_max5_patcher-----------
we tested it on various configuration of Macbookpro with Max5.1.8 and a OSX.6.7… in my macbook the message MAX_EVENTS_PER_BLOCK exceeded appear approx when I put the dac vector size at (44100) 512 both, metro at 30ms.
it seems a very low speed to play notes !
but are we alone in this case?
I’m not using any vst in max5
BUT (and it is OT), I’d DREAM about a new generation of pluggo :)
currently hesitating between pure juce c++ and synthmaker/synthedit like…