Forums > MaxMSP

Big coll : performance hit?

Dec 10 2010 | 4:33 pm

I am wondering if anyone has experience with Very Very Large colls. Like with 50000 lines, or 150000 lines. I assume there is no maximum line limit. If I ask for line# 49834, is there a performance hit?

Dec 11 2010 | 1:23 am

coll uses a linklist. So in order to fin the #49834 it has to iterate through everything. First apply the usual rule: don’t optimize, but code! and if you have a performance issue, you can for instance split your data among multiple coll by doing something more sophisticated on the key.

Dec 11 2010 | 5:06 am

Thank you for the information.

Hmmmm . . .ahh, but if I am stepping through the coll using BANG or NEXT message, then perhaps it does not have to iterate through each time you step; it "remembers" or is still "there"? In other words, I step through 1, 2, 3, . . . . 29854, and the time it takes to go from 2 to 3, is the same as the time to go from 29853 to 29854. Is this correct? If so, I am OK with what I am doing, I think . . . .

I am not sure I understand the "usual rule" that you mention. Do you mean, "program what you want, worry about performance issues when they actually happen" ? I am afraid I have done that in past and then been very sad.

Dec 11 2010 | 5:14 am

[text] doesn’t use a linked list, does it? am wondering for an upcoming project where I’d need several thousand word entries, each with some category flags. would this be best to do with [text] on a line-by-line basis, or with [coll]? They wouldn’t need to be changed once they’re in there, just accessed with their flags.

Dec 11 2010 | 8:15 am

you will often find that it is not possible to replace a [coll] with [text] so easily.

Dec 11 2010 | 1:35 pm

I think my original follow-up question got buried:

So if I am STEPPING through a coll sequentially, does that avoid the possible performance issue of having to iterate through the linked-list for each step?

Dec 11 2010 | 5:25 pm


Yes it does. next/prev starts from the last known location in the linklist.

Dec 12 2010 | 12:23 am

Is the struct traversal algorithm smart enough to know that if two consecutive indexes are being addressed (ie 1, then 2) then this is the same as using ( next) ie (1, then next)?

Dec 12 2010 | 6:32 pm

Mmm… empirical data…

Dec 12 2010 | 7:52 pm

We see so much topics about [coll] performance issue, sorry to repeat that again, but i find that, because of this "iterate-through-everything" neccesity, coll is the most inefficient piece of object in max. Hundreds of thousand of computer cycles to just recover one single value. ( )

I might be wrong but my feeling is that maxers rarely use this "Linked list" feature of coll, so i think that a kind of [arraylist] object is missing in max. This ideal [arraylist] object wouldn’t need to iterate through everything to retrieve the list n°49834 stored in it. It would just look directly for the list n°49834.

Dec 12 2010 | 8:41 pm

Bear in mind that coll can use symbols as indexes.

To improve coll’s performance with longer lists, a hashtab would probably be needed. Its performance would be worse than a linked list for (quite) short lists.

There’s a project for somebody. The coll source is available in the SDK – try rewriting it to use a t_hashtab. Doing a "next" in a hashtab is impossible(?), so it’s likely you’d need a t_linklist in parallel anyway (storing just the coll indexes), ie you’re gonna wind up with an additional performance hit when storing/removing indexes etc.

Dec 13 2010 | 5:23 am

Thanks for the discussion, everybody. I am using coll as a kind of storage for sequencer data (where each line contains a variable number of parameters for different kinds of note/events). So, except for an initial "Go To" event, I’ll be stepping through, so I suppose I am OK with that.

If anyone has other suggestions on how to do sequencing, I’m all ears. . .

I know I’m not the first to use coll this way..

Dec 13 2010 | 10:00 am

Chris, you say:
I am using coll as a kind of storage for sequencer data (where each line contains a variable number of parameters for different kinds of note/events).

Isn’t [detonate] optimized for this kind of application? Have you looked at that?

Dec 13 2010 | 11:32 am

[detonate] is really about MIDI notes… I’d probably use [qlist] as a more general tool. But I also happened doing the same with [coll], and it worked quite well.

@johnpitcairn: unfortunately the source for coll is not in the sdk… it might not be too difficult replicating its basic behaviour using hashtabs, but it sounds like a very boring job! on the other hand, in the sdk there are a couple of examples dealing with databases, one of which is called "dbcuelist" – it looks quite basic, but not bad at all…


Dec 13 2010 | 11:36 am

… or you might give a look at the slots of bach.roll and bach.score –


Dec 13 2010 | 8:37 pm

> "I use [jit.matrix] to store data for a sequencer ; but not sure that’s best …"

From what i remember, in term of efficiency, It is the best in max to do that. Around X100 faster than coll.
A while ago, i made some efficiency test to store sequence data in an array, comparing : jit.matrix, coll, ftm, peek~ and buffer, etc.. to store and read values :

Dec 14 2010 | 7:40 pm

@andrea agostini: The coll source is in the Max 4 SDK. I suspect it’s little different, if at all, in Max 5. I wonder what the comparative lookup times are for a database?

Dec 14 2010 | 10:25 pm

mmm… I should have a Max 4 SDK somewhere. But if it’s a pre-obex version, quite a lot of things could have changed. I’ll go and check it out.

I’d be curious too about the performance of a database. In principle, I’d expect it to be very efficient on huge collections of data, not as much for smaller ones.


Dec 15 2010 | 12:54 am

I was using a coll because I can stash text, numbers, all kinds of things etc. in there. I’m not sure that jit.matrix can do this? (Although of course there are ways around that).

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