Forums > Max For Live

Collaborative Max and M4L learn challenges for noobs?

Jan 03 2010 | 11:45 pm

I’m just thinking about this:
As we’re a certain amount of new Max users since the M4L launch, and because Mike (the Tutorialist from may be a human being with only 24h a day like a lot of people on earth, and because we’re excited and want to learn…
Why not create a "learn it yourself you stupid noob" thread, where we would propose simple patches ideas and then vote for one we’ll have to built together, on week basis for example.
My english is not very good so I won’t try to detail the idea, but fortunately this idea looks pretty simple so I guess I don’t have to say more.
I’ve also post the idea on the forum and at Ableton M4L forum.

Jan 06 2010 | 12:38 pm

seems to be a good idea for me

Jan 07 2010 | 3:00 am

There is a thread in the Reaktor forums similar to this idea, and it seems to work pretty well.

I would totally participate in learning this way. Seems to me the difficult part is picking a "patch" or something to learn, seeing that Max is like a black hole of possibilities.

Maybe breaking it down to categories and deciding something from there. For example, Do we want to learn how to build a simple instrument like a synth? Maybe an FX device, a simple sampler, some kind of midi control interface? A utility device?

I’m up for anything. I hope someone with some willingness to teach shows up and drops some ideas.

Jan 07 2010 | 5:09 pm

I’m personnaly more interested in the Max side and the live API possibilities. But, as others I just, primarily, just want to learn.
The idea was to be our "self-teachers", a group of people who know almost nothing and who’s trying to search together what to do, how that thing works…
I think you’re right, breaking it down to categories would be necessary.
Maybe a good starting point would be to take the Live’s M4L lessons like the "buiding blocks" or whatever which looks progressive, and try together to explain how each device works.
It would be great to work together, some people at Ableton’s forum said they’re insterested in, but they don’t seems to propose anything for the moment.

Jan 07 2010 | 10:35 pm

Every effort to work together as fellow-users of MFL is welcome and I will collaborate in this project.

I’m new to Max, MSP and Jitter. The last 30 years I’ve been interested in computing, computer languages and form the year 2000 on: Computer Music. This has resulted in buying Ableton Live, Native Instruments Komplete (including Reaktor) and MFL on the first day it was available as a commercial product.

The sky is the limit when it comes to automating Ableton Live and plugin devices with MFL. After studying MFL over the last weeks I come to a few conclusions:

– MFL will mean many things for users with very different goals
– The basics of Max are simple, but you need to learn the innards of a lot of pre-built objects to become an expert. The learning curve after the first start is quite steep

If this project is going to be a success we must restrict ourselves to specific goals and ignore the temptation to explore into the deep of the tremendous possibilities.

I think people with interest in effects, instruments and signal processing can join the existing Max/MSP forums and groups. The restrictions compared with Max/MSP pose no problem, except for the use of direct audio-streams and MIDI. Processing of video anf jit can keep people busy for a lifetime, but it has very little interaction with Ableton Live.

What remains is using MFL as a powerful patching and automation environment for Live. The pre-built objects are well designed, but are too low level for use on their own. I think our goal should be to develop a re-usable general purpose library of light weight utilities and objects for everyday tasks.

Among these every day tasks I recognise:
– Flexible use of MIDI devices to control the LiveAPI
– Communication via OSC
– Transporting controlling signals like LFO-signals and MIDI CC-messages
– Transporting ‘hot’ audio signals
– Displaying information within the 169 pixel device window of Live and on MFL popup windows
– Automation of parametrs, clips, looping, devices, parameters and song-structure

I think it’s time to get going!

Jan 08 2010 | 4:51 pm

Well if any/all of you guys are interested in collaborating, I am looking at building several projects in Max4L that can do the following:

1. Provide the user with a visually rich & intuitive means for re-mapping the APC40 (or any device really).
a. Allow for the user to define what buttons/controls do what
b. Allow user to define "modes" or "scenes" that can be sent to the device dynamically
c. All in a graphical intuitive interface.

2. Build a Midi/OSC over IP application. I know there are some people out there doing similar stuff already, but I’d rather see that as a resource to help figure out how to do it rather than use them directly.

I have a fairly extensive background in .NET / Java programming (10 years or so) and Database Development, but I am just learning max, and this is precisely how I got into coding in the first place. I knew I wanted to build "X" and that I had to start with getting data from a table into my application. Step 1. Open Mt Dew (or any massively caffinated beverage) Step 2. Kiss the wife cuz you won’t be seeing her for a while Step 3. Roll up sleeves.

Jan 08 2010 | 4:56 pm

Xanadu I also like your approach. I have already started in that regard (with the mdi-translator piece). I built the ‘shift’ logic into a sub-patch that can be re-used. It takes in a midiinfo and the ‘shift’ button’s "pitch value" and outputs xnoteout & ctlout values.

Jan 10 2010 | 12:08 am

Thanks darlings for your interest.
Why not getting start on mondays sweet ladies?

Jan 11 2010 | 8:42 pm

I’m also very new to Max, but from what I’ve seen: It’s all about learning the syntax and try things out. Reading throught the tutorials gave me some great tips and tricks. After that, I clicked through the objects, through name and type.

When learning Live, I think you must have a goal – mine is creating a JazzMutant Lemur ClipLauncher (OSC controlled) and that gave me a lot of insights of the objects, -AND STILL LEARNING-. I now know about, oscsend and oscreceive, pack, unpack, bondo, zl, metro, loadbang, delay, route, live., and the list goes on and on…

Second, I’ve found blogging interesting. This way I share my patches and idea’s with others, allowing to comment and improve – I also write them down – and never forget them. If you like, check it:

More interesting subjects to come :-)

Jan 14 2010 | 4:18 am

I unfortunately don’t have the time to join in on this wonderful idea! But my quick sense from the comments here so far as well as the excitement over APC40 on the Ableton forums and generally, as well as in many other threads here, is that starting off simply with a project that would use Max to customize the way Live interacts with the APC40, or other similar controller interfaces, would be a good general area to focus on. Yes? No?

Jan 15 2010 | 12:38 am

YES YES YES, APC40 Modes!!!!

If I had my way we would do that first! Michael Chenetz has stuff on Launchpad, and though it claims to be usefull with the APC40, I find the APC40 to have some hang ups with such ideas. Ones that would be great to learn!

Maybe this is a biased statement, but it seems APC40 users need this information. It’s not as abundant as Lemmur, Monome, Livid, Launchpad information on tweaking.

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