glitchless VST outside of Max can be clicky when used with [vst~]
I’m using a Reaktor ensemble as VST in Max.
I noticed the global event loop in Reaktor seems clicky: sometimes there is one clicks. Almost regularly.
Please don’t tell me to port the patch to Max. That could be a solution in the future, but not now.
Is there a way to optimize the integration/execution of a Reaktor ensemble as VST, or more globally a VST in Max ?
Did I forget about something somewhere …?
Any help would be very appreciated :)
any ideas ?
I use Reaktor (and many other VSTs simultaneously in max 5 with no issues. However have you checked CPU utilization and have you checked your buffer length (latency) that Max is using)
Also, I’ve found that different audio interfaces can have an impact. I just switched from MOTU to RME last month and I’m able to work with lower latency
it doesn’t seem to be a latency issue at all.
the same VST outside Max runs fine with my RME, even with my built-in output etc.
What version of Max?
Can you try running 5.1.9?
I’ve had a lot of grief with Max 6 but max 5 has been essentially flawless. It’s been hard to get test cases to the cycling74 team so it would be interesting to see if someone else experiences the same behavior with Max 6 vs max 5 when running VSTs
That would require to reinstall 5.x and "compile" it to an standalone in my case. why not…
testing on tomorrow.
seems good on my laptop with 5.1.9 … curiously ;)
something more (and bad), using it on the production version on 6.1.6 running as 32bit … that SHOULD be 64bit, btw.
If you have a Reaktor ensemble which is glitching in vst~ please send it in to support
@Andrew, testing at first to run my max standalone packed for 64bit.. which should have been the case! Then, doing that if it still doesn’t work fine.
to be more precise: these are not massive glitching.. just sometimes (not every time at the same moment, but about each 1 minute, there is a small click)
I’d like to reactivate this thread, as I am experiencing similar problems using Reaktor in a vst~: actually all ensembles loaded in Reaktor inside Max on my machine are clicky. As Julien says, clicks appear not really often, but they are quite audible. In my patch, the vst~ is inside a poly~ with one voice (just to be able to mute the dsp chain, as the subpatcher contains many other signal objects). The clicks were initially more frequent, but I discovered that adding "@parallel 1" to the arguments of the poly~ actually helps. But does not solve totally the problem. I don’t have such similar problems with any other vst plugins I use (also from Native Instruments). I’m gonna troubleshoot more, but if some other users had similar problems and have tips, there are warmly welcome!
Computer: Macbook Pro i7 2.7 GHz
Max: 6.1.8 in 32 bits (I had similar issues before with 6.1.6 and 6.1.7)
A) What buffer size/latency settings are you using in Max? Have you looked at the CPU utilization reported by Max? Is it high?
B) Have you tried your patcher in Max 5.1.9 — I use Reaktor in that environment all the time and it’s totally glitchless.
I’m working with buffer sizes of 512 samples (I/O) and 256 (signal), and I have absolutely no problems with CPU, it runs between 10 and 20%. I did not try this patch in 5.1.9 because I simply cannot, I use too many features from Max 6.
Not sure whether this is helpful but I went through a period of time where I had audio glitches that I thought were CPU or VST~ related and it was only months later that I realized that the problem was actually due to signals that ended up being too loud and overloading the DSP. (Too many signals being summed to the output)
It seems weird that a too loud signal can overload the DSP: signals are computed anyway in float64, so even a +200dBFS should not be harder to manage for Max than -200dBFS. But if you have tons of cables connected to the same output, it has to perform as many sums, so that maybe could charge the CPU more (even if a sum takes really little CPU).
Nothing to do with overloading. As I understand it , legitimate values sent to the DAC are those between 0.0 and 1.0. But say you are summing multiple signals and at some points in the cycle you get a value that’s greater than 1.0. That value will be clipped if sent to the DAC hence won’t faithfully represent your sound, i.e. distortion.
I first ran into this when I had a lot of VSTs running simultaneously and so I thought the CPU wasn’t handling them well. Then I noticed that reducing the internal gain (and increasing my analog amp gain) resulted in no distortion.
Not saying that’s what’s happening to you but perhaps just worth checking
I see, I did not really get your previous post. No it’s definitely not distortion, it’s clicks, that occur every minutes or so. The clicks occur only if there’s signal coming out of Reaktor. Not sure if they come from a discontinuity in the signal (a buffer or a few samples being lost or something similar), as I did not have time to record and observe it, but it sounds like that.
I did further checks, and actually the problem does not come at all from Reaktor, but from vst~, which becomes clicky during parameter changes. This problem, that does not occur on Max5, has already been addressed in another post:
The bug is known and has already been ticketed. I hope it’s gonna be solved soon, it’s too bad because it currently really limits the interest of hosting vst plugins into max.
actually, the original post wasn’t exactly that "bug"
no parameters change would drive into clicks as well..
The last reproducible bug had to do with parameter input, and is definitely fixed in 618.
As always, we are really interested in reproducing these issues, so if you have a way of getting your projects to us we’d very much appreciate it
Here it is, the bug is as isolated as it can be, I hope my comments are clear enough:
-- Pasted Max Patch, click to expand. --Copy all of the following text. Then, in Max, select New From Clipboard.----------begin_max5_patcher---------- 1362.3oc0YsziaaCD9r2eECTCPaAbDDkje0dJWJPQQ6glE4RSQ.sDsLyJQ5R Q4ccBR9s2gjRJd2UdsVAEijCqdLjlbluYluYn1Od0Du0x6Xkdvu.+CLYxGuZ xDqHifI0uOwqfdWRNszNMuDYQASn8l5FSytSak6CWyJ0rTPJf+jdGL2m3uDh Bg0bcIPEov7X6yuU3CbMbqTcSIjyugATHYKUUT+Km0rz4bAKQVIrqeTsvMRg VPKX187UJNMuY5hpBtHmospIoV3NpNYKWj8NEKQ6Ly4QK7ClBwKhM2BCV5dy O.92i1iR9Gr6AIDGtcCjU5lcnQJO0pJx0u+kQKazkMpr01I4GXD7oqtxbYZO g3M4Rbu7NqEuipP4Zl5cLAccN6X0xoo5C6XNq1rnTzqAdqohLuVasSTC0FdA pAFQslONuFgAsB6.eCCVYPznf4layBbn7yEdC6.dIdC.LOU75FoBn44fdKC1 Wpgc4UYbQI76f1FGO0DTJPQYXbICjary7Mu9ZnE1KmBr8LAvci4VAfWBqOrC 2dyZrSISqRXXBPUJGcQPRNOAi62njEflWv.szd2G9aFNSy1YVK6PYJpY8DVI lrAnfdCtVlWqWGYRRkBJjJiFpYhNycVL14NjEgNup6sffQH4Ibw3j7HX2hK2 ib2XzeZAqrDHmOu5Q4NmIcoCfJJxwtLel4VCb8bgIRGvzrgjDnkYYH+vP3M3 lXnAZ90b.gOlC371Y7PrSiGllwdj22kPBuXDc9gOg0G5X.iMjmfKDfrbLb9g iICXolpzVxDLXPI8FMVBRPriWXl+rovxkCK3uKNhfwgi3jHxV4sBXKCYSukq 2BuAaNRjIgqqVyfWUraJrtRi8xbvUGnga2.gkHhYjfoSE9.7aX0ErZhlJRXH yN8FsTM6K+hZ16lpGb8O9khF1dkDRfIJYElRFXAEC6EK0GdUhtBKZcntvSSM KixJsZlsNiD25c3q+js6p+.Aab++YfppKabnypDKG6pDgKirgAqbUIHwiPD. Y03DAbJhh3KEGQSWRNNBGc4nvQPFTAhSU0zzzQfuoD+PPkomDYhNKxTW5b97 Qq+QRzXVR4EDCpDbICVBirITyFwfkvuG5ln17Iql6t0bs+cSPBFwjBa0xg57 ehSec9..h6zTKHiV6jq9Nx+uxF8GOq4Z+c+KFhUx9PJM4ydOSOUb.4nutvYU 1NJwMnFey46Y9Y3wEaU38TUaH4iGsKmF4TNsRdlvDRe7Sl+Z+jB47R8yOnNl PbDYtu.i8JIZ9IwpYc7IAZrmR5dV56nZshisnw9xSk0fVMpYvk7JlbSi3F4G CI4RQ1owt6MUriQktmysAQC5XrBDxLi8xEseakGLN059m24nbAWijNO1W10r bf+KiZg46MoJbRk5CtUI1MtMVr413vglbHIm84A1WQcT3fC3brnyWNdGJeDq truT+Y3sdMG43sdCGflNVO0liO0wfWK5I5ua4Sb5XWY7X2GdkrJ1bHwA3Fh6 nL+wzA0XwO7WF0zfpVq.OHEFh+eUL7mMESEgVj1L7uhlyQtRqFYaB9AehbqY Yjee+aorRkzrw0sbhaRqgkxJ0bAUykhilTD4dSZKOMkINt3PJuzjWasytOrS u0mvdnOOPo+ZpO8AdHeyoMjKh1DF9ME3fmq7aJ0oGZS7EUaH8PatLQN3oc5g qJ7hgN8IP9xw4DF2C0I7BhN8IwJ7xEKG0mTqGvF70TeVzC0Y0ESaV0GvIXfp iqeC5tc6Ypx50zpIXmiuWprG.X5Ut+WrtWsMi5oX64My214kGUgscowdtpTt FFuat4bk397oq9ePx4B5t -----------end_max5_patcher-----------
Don’t get me started on max6 VST~ problems that don’t happen in max5. I think I’m going to be stuck with Max5 forever
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