lpons

i am completely new to this program, but i have seen performances etc. evolving around max/msp - and i am amazed. extreme possibilites.

so i was thinking, that i somehow must be able to get the signal from my guitar into max?

i own an apple powerbook 15", and i was thinking that I need some sort of soundcard, in which the signal can go 

guitar > amp > soundcard > powerbook/max 

i am very basic here, so any help is appreciated. thanks in advance.

so i was thinking, that i somehow must be able to get the signal from my guitar into max? 

i own an apple powerbook 15", and i was thinking that I need some sort of soundcard, in which the signal can go 
guitar > amp > soundcard > powerbook/max  
or
guitar > soundcard > powerbook/max 

i am very basic here, so any help is appreciated. thanks in advance.


guitar-signal-into-maxmsp

I've done all of those setups for years, which have their pros and cons.

    bass -> amp+cab -> (tuner out] -> soundcard -> PA

    bass -> amp+cab -> (tuner out] -> soundcard -> aux in of bassamp

    bass -> preamp ->fx loop send -> soundcard -> fx loop return -> amp

    bass -> soundcard -> preamp+amp+cab

I can dissert on the pros and cons of each but later tomorrow. It is 

roughly down to noise floor and tone. If you are a true bypass 

	bass -> amp+cab -> (tuner out] -> soundcard -> PA

	bass -> amp+cab -> (tuner out] -> soundcard ->  aux in of bassamp

	bass -> preamp ->fx loop send -> soundcard -> fx loop return -> amp

I can dissert on the pros and cons of each but later tomorrow.  It is  
roughly down to noise floor and tone.  If you are a true bypass  
boutique pedal guy, go for 1a!

The Ultimate Electric Guitar with Built-In USB Port to Connect Straight to Your Computer.

http://www.behringer.com/IAXE393/index.cfm?lang=ENG

iAXE393 USB-Guitar
The Ultimate Electric Guitar with Built-In USB Port to Connect Straight to Your Computer.

http://www.behringer.com/IAXE393/index.cfm?lang=ENG


ah, no thank you with the usb guitar. cool idea though, but ill do with a regular electric guitar.

# tremplab, the solutions sounds interesting, but i am not entirely sure what i need for it to work. 

1a looks quite simple, but i do not know what PA is? and what do you mean by tuner out? tuner out = amp out?

there is a amp out, actually it says headphones, but it's a signal out as far as i understand.

but if all i need is a soundcard and i plug it in that way, will max/msp just be able to see it and manipulate the sound etc?

ah, no thank you with the usb guitar. cool idea though, but ill do with a regular electric guitar. 

# tremplab, the solutions sounds interesting, but i am not entirely sure what i need for it to work. 
1a looks quite simple, but i do not know what PA is? and what do you mean by tuner out? tuner out = amp out? 

there is a amp out, actually it says headphones, but it's a signal out as far as i understand. 

but if all i need is a soundcard and i plug it in that way, will max/msp just be able to see it and manipulate the sound etc? 

i have considered buying an m-audio audiophile usb soundcard, so if i bought that all i would need is the , for an example the behringer pb-100 - which is the preamp i should buy? i mean, do you recommend the pb-100? anyway, if i bought that, the signal would be:

guitar > behringer pb-100 > m-audio audiophile usb > pb/max > soundcard > pa/amp

right? and then it would (hopefully) work?

pa/amp is my speakers/stereo amplifier (not guitar amplifier), right? i'm just not sure what PA means .. :)

yet again, thanks for the fast and good answers.. :)

right? and then it would (hopefully) work? 

yet again, thanks for the fast and good answers.. :)


And also :-)
Guitar -> your powerbook's audio in !
No soundcard to buy!
Jean-François.


The guitar's output will need to be converted into a line-level signal

at some point, so at a minimum you're going to need to put a direct box

in between your guitar and your audio input.

Personally, I'm using a Line 6 PodXT Live for this purpose, but that's

likely overkill if you don't need the amp & FX modeling. I don't think

it's possible to take an electric guitar's 1/4" output and plug it

straight into the 1/8" stereo in on the Powerbook though. I mean, you

can, but you're not likely to get a usable signal that way.

> And also :-)
> Guitar -> your powerbook's audio in !
> No soundcard to buy!

The guitar's output will need to be converted into a line-level signal
at some point, so at a minimum you're going to need to put a direct box
in between your guitar and your audio input.

Personally, I'm using a Line 6 PodXT Live for this purpose, but that's
likely overkill if you don't need the amp & FX modeling. I don't think
it's possible to take an electric guitar's 1/4" output and plug it
straight into the 1/8" stereo in on the Powerbook though. I mean, you
can, but you're not likely to get a usable signal that way.

Try the instrument preamp on the RME Fireface 800 or Fireface 400. They have 

the best Amp simulator I have ever heard.

It's awesome, beautifully sounding, with a limiter and also an activable 

heavy drive circuit. I use it currently for my clean guitar sound straight 

Pod Xt or other stuff like that is crap. Get an RME FireFace if you want a 

Subject: [maxmsp] Re: guitar signal into maxmsp

> i have considered buying an m-audio audiophile usb soundcard, so if i 

> bought that all i would need is the , for an example the behringer 

> pb-100 - which is the preamp i should buy? i mean, do you recommend the 

> pb-100? anyway, if i bought that, the signal would be:

> guitar > behringer pb-100 > m-audio audiophile usb > pb/max > soundcard >

> right? and then it would (hopefully) work?

> pa/amp is my speakers/stereo amplifier (not guitar amplifier), right? i'm 

> yet again, thanks for the fast and good answers.. :)

Try the instrument preamp on the RME Fireface 800 or Fireface 400. They have 
the best Amp simulator I have ever heard.
It's awesome, beautifully sounding, with a limiter and also an activable 
heavy drive circuit. I use it currently for my clean guitar sound straight 
into Max Msp.
Pod Xt or other stuff like that is crap. Get an RME FireFace if you want a 
real guitar sound.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "isak" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 11:55 PM
Subject: [maxmsp] Re: guitar signal into maxmsp

>
> hi kasper.
>
> thank you for your answer.
>
> i have considered buying an m-audio audiophile usb soundcard, so if i 
> bought that all i would need is the , for an example the behringer 
> pb-100 - which is the preamp i should buy? i mean, do you recommend the 
> pb-100? anyway, if i bought that, the signal would be:
>
> guitar > behringer pb-100 > m-audio audiophile usb > pb/max > soundcard >
> pa/amp
>
> right? and then it would (hopefully) work?
>
> pa/amp is my speakers/stereo amplifier (not guitar amplifier), right? i'm 
> just not sure what PA means .. :)
>
> yet again, thanks for the fast and good answers.. :)


>Try the instrument preamp on the RME Fireface 800 or Fireface 400. 

>They have the best Amp simulator I have ever heard.

>It's awesome, beautifully sounding, with a limiter and also an 

>activable heavy drive circuit. I use it currently for my clean 

so..... I know (even if i never tested it) than there is an amp 

simulator on the input 1 of the fireface 800.

but as far as fireface 400 goes i read only ONCE, and it was in a 

french ad run by a shop than the inputs 3 & 4 had the same amp 

simulators - I downloadede the FFace 400 english manual (pdf - from 

so can you confirm than the FFace 400 has the amp sims (+ distortion) 

what's more it _seems_ you can use midi to control the internal DSP 

of the FFace 400 (which once, in os9, was possible with a set of max 

objects - but never ported to OSX) - is it true??

_for instance - can I (by midi, which means from inside max) 

activate the distortion of the FFace?? - or route an input (say dac~ 

1) of max to one of the different outs of the card (which would allow 

for a spatialisation effect - at least pan effect - running on the 

dsp of the card and not of the computer) ???

__as for the criticism of the emulations of the pod family - i 

totally agree... i was once trying them only to realise I had an 

ampeg and a marshall (real stuff) facing me - then i tried an A/B 

>Try the instrument preamp on the RME Fireface 800 or Fireface 400. 
>They have the best Amp simulator I have ever heard.
>It's awesome, beautifully sounding, with a limiter and also an 
>activable heavy drive circuit. I use it currently for my clean 
>guitar sound straight into Max Msp.

so.....  I know (even if i never tested it) than there is an amp 
simulator on the input 1 of the fireface 800.

but as far as fireface 400 goes i read only ONCE, and it was in a 
french ad run by a shop than the inputs 3 & 4 had the same amp 
simulators - I downloadede the FFace 400 english manual (pdf - from 
RME site) and they don't speak about it

so can you confirm than the FFace 400 has the amp sims (+ distortion) 
on inputs 3 & 4 ????

what's more it _seems_ you can use midi to control the internal DSP 
of the FFace 400 (which once, in os9, was possible with a set  of max 
objects - but never ported to OSX) - is it true??

_for instance - can I  (by midi, which means from inside max) 
activate the distortion of the FFace?? - or route an input (say dac~ 
1) of max to one of the different outs of the card (which would allow 
for a spatialisation effect - at least pan effect - running on the 
dsp of the card and not of the computer) ???

__as for the criticism of the emulations of the pod family - i 
totally agree... i was once trying them only to realise I had an 
ampeg and a marshall (real stuff) facing me - then i tried an A/B 
test _ then i stopped using the POD

kasper
-- 
  Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer
http://www.sleazeArt.com

> Pod Xt or other stuff like that is crap. Get an RME FireFace if you want

Since this is ostensibly the Max/MSP list, and not the "getting a guitar

sound into your computer so you can process it with software" list, I'll

I find it interesting how so often hardware discussions will devolve

into the "anything less than a high-priced piece of gear is crap"

argument. IMHO, buying a Fireface for the sole purposes of getting a

guitar signal into your computer is overkill. If you want the absolute

cheapest way, buy the cheapest direct box you can find, and run a cable

with an 1/8" stereo mini on one end from the direct box into your

Powerbook. I think you can get direct boxes for as cheap as $19.00.

It's ridiculous to suggest to someone that, in the original context of

the post ("guitar signal into maxmsp"), they go out and buy a $1000+

audio interface so they can get a "real guitar sound". I'm presuming

that the whole purpose of sending the signal to Max is so you can make

All that being said, whether or not the Line 6 Pods are crap or not is a

pretty subjective opinion. If your goal is authenticity, then by all

means go out and spend $2100 on an Orange amp or $1100 on a Fender Twin.

If you've got the money and a room to put it in, more power to you.

For those of us with more limited resources (and I'll assume the

original poster is in that category), the Line 6 PodXT Live is a decent

alternative, especially for the $345 (new) I spent. I wanted something

that would do good-enough amp modeling & FX without needing to be

connected to the computer; have knobs & a pedal; upgradeable firmware; a

software editor; and a USB interface for easy connection to the computer.

The PodXT filled all those needs in spades, and to my ears, it sounds

great, especially for less than $350. For a somewhat more objective

opinion on the Pod XT, try SOS's review (spoiler: they come to a similar

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Jan03/articles/line6podxt.asp

Denigrating what someone else uses because it doesn't fulfill your

personal needs doesn't add a whole lot to the discussion. Since my

advocacy of the Pods also doesn't add a whole lot to the Max list

> Pod Xt or other stuff like that is crap. Get an RME FireFace if you want
> a real guitar sound.

Since this is ostensibly the Max/MSP list, and not the "getting a guitar
sound into your computer so you can process it with software" list, I'll
try and keep my comments short.

I find it interesting how so often hardware discussions will devolve
into the "anything less than a high-priced piece of gear is crap"
argument. IMHO, buying a Fireface for the sole purposes of getting a
guitar signal into your computer is overkill. If you want the absolute
cheapest way, buy the cheapest direct box you can find, and run a cable
with an 1/8" stereo mini on one end from the direct box into your
Powerbook. I think you can get direct boxes for as cheap as $19.00.

It's ridiculous to suggest to someone that, in the original context of
the post ("guitar signal into maxmsp"), they go out and buy a $1000+
audio interface so they can get a "real guitar sound". I'm presuming
that the whole purpose of sending the signal to Max is so you can make
it NOT sound like a "real guitar sound".

All that being said, whether or not the Line 6 Pods are crap or not is a
pretty subjective opinion. If your goal is authenticity, then by all
means go out and spend $2100 on an Orange amp or $1100 on a Fender Twin.
If you've got the money and a room to put it in, more power to you.

For those of us with more limited resources (and I'll assume the
original poster is in that category), the Line 6 PodXT Live is a decent
alternative, especially for the $345 (new) I spent. I wanted something
that would do good-enough amp modeling & FX without needing to be
connected to the computer; have knobs & a pedal; upgradeable firmware; a
software editor; and a USB interface for easy connection to the computer.

The PodXT filled all those needs in spades, and to my ears, it sounds
great, especially for less than $350. For a somewhat more objective
opinion on the Pod XT, try SOS's review (spoiler: they come to a similar
conclusion):

Denigrating what someone else uses because it doesn't fulfill your
personal needs doesn't add a whole lot to the discussion. Since my
advocacy of the Pods also doesn't add a whole lot to the Max list
discussion, I'll stop now. :-)

You commentary brings back an old dilema which is good for all real- 

In one corner, I have my idea that everything colours my bass sound, 

and that is why I spend big money to key my signal chain as clear as 

possible. I have not practive my instrument 10000+ hours to loose my 

right hand dynamic into a crap converter. This is why my crazy 

processing (attack detecting -> buffer shuffling -> distortion ->

eenvelop following -> variable delays -> etc) usualy come from an fx 

In the other corner, I want to get as simply as possible in my 

machine. From this point of view, I have use my favourite bass DI 

(sansamp) straignt into my MOTU. In some performances, it is simply 

this no-overkill-let's-rock approach that suit the rality the most. 

But I would never record an album with this setup, following the 

wonderful rule once said by Yoda I think:

Or in more polite words: if in an improvisation I suddenly want my 

clean sound, it will never be as beautiful and transparent than not 

I think the bottom line is to assess the portability/output quality 

ratio of each case: going to a PA in a free jazz club is not a 

discriminating sound quality environement, so use the KISS rule. 

You commentary brings back an old dilema which is good for all real- 
time processing.

In one corner, I have my idea that everything colours my bass sound,  
and that is why I spend big money to key my signal chain as clear as  
possible.  I have not practive my instrument 10000+ hours to loose my  
right hand dynamic into a crap converter.  This is why my crazy  
processing (attack detecting -> buffer shuffling -> distortion ->
eenvelop following -> variable delays -> etc) usualy come from an fx  
loop of my hi quality Eden preamp.

In the other corner, I want to get as simply as possible in my  
machine.  From this point of view, I have use my favourite bass DI  
(sansamp) straignt into my MOTU. In some performances, it is simply  
this no-overkill-let's-rock approach that suit the rality the most.   
But I would never record an album with this setup, following the  
wonderful rule once said by Yoda I think:

Or in more polite words: if in an improvisation I suddenly want my  
clean sound, it will never be as beautiful and transparent than not  
going by an unused ADC-DAC stage.

--
I think the bottom line is to assess the portability/output quality  
ratio of each case: going to a PA in a free jazz club is not a  
discriminating sound quality environement, so use the KISS rule.   
Recording in studio is someting else.

> In one corner, I have my idea that everything colours my bass sound

> In the other corner, I want to get as simply as possible in my

And in another corner, the budget-minded hobbyist who is not a

professional musician who simply wants to plug their guitar into their

laptop and process the signal. Believe it or not, this kind of user

likely comprises the bulk of this, and most other, like-minded

communities. It's also likely that the sort of person who will ask a

generalized question like "How can I process my guitar with Max?" is not

the same sort of person who doesn't blink at dropping $850 on a bass

My point is, when we are engaging in discussions on this list, our

answers should try to make some assumptions about who is asking the

question. Max users come from all walks of life, and only a small

percentage make their living from music and will know (or even be able

to hear) the difference between an Eden preamp and a Sansamp DI box.

> In one corner, I have my idea that everything colours my bass sound
...
> In the other corner, I want to get as simply as possible in my
> machine.
...
> Shit in, shit out.

And in another corner, the budget-minded hobbyist who is not a
professional musician who simply wants to plug their guitar into their
laptop and process the signal. Believe it or not, this kind of user
likely comprises the bulk of this, and most other, like-minded
communities. It's also likely that the sort of person who will ask a
generalized question like "How can I process my guitar with Max?" is not
the same sort of person who doesn't blink at dropping $850 on a bass
preamplifier.

My point is, when we are engaging in discussions on this list, our
answers should try to make some assumptions about who is asking the
question. Max users come from all walks of life, and only a small
percentage make their living from music and will know (or even be able
to hear) the difference between an Eden preamp and a Sansamp DI box.

I half appologise for my elitist-ish answer.

The half that apologise is the one that, you are right W., never 

thought this question was maybe not sent by a pro. There is probably 

two reason for this, one is because I am a selfish person, but mainly 

because I heard some pro international level musician asking me the 

The half that does not apologise is the one that was told one day by 

someone half-joking that if I could not hear the difference between 

32kHz and 44.1kHz sampling rate I did not deserve my degree. First, 

I thought he was a twat. Then, I listen back, and improve my 

discriminating listening. The same goes for true-bypass pedal, 

converters, and psychoacoustic. I really think that if the level of 

my answer is over the head of the person who ask, I hope he will ask 

more details after doing some research. Or it might interest someone 

I was, in fact, very interested by Kasper's pedal preamp. Trusting 

is judgement, I will give it a listen, going over my prejudice on the 

usual bad quality of the 3746284 other pedals I have tried in the 

past. So this discussion is interesting at different level for 

The half that apologise is the one that, you are right W., never  
thought this question was maybe not sent by a pro.  There is probably  
two reason for this, one is because I am a selfish person, but mainly  
because I heard some pro international level musician asking me the  
same question very often.

The half that does not apologise is the one that was told one day by  
someone half-joking that if I could not hear the difference between  
32kHz and 44.1kHz sampling rate I did not deserve my degree.  First,  
I thought he was a twat.  Then, I listen back, and improve my  
discriminating listening.  The same goes for true-bypass pedal,  
converters, and psychoacoustic.  I really think that if the level of  
my answer is over the head of the person who ask, I hope he will ask  
more details after doing some research.  Or it might interest someone  
else.

I was, in fact, very interested by Kasper's pedal preamp.  Trusting  
is judgement, I will give it a listen, going over my prejudice on the  
usual bad quality of the 3746284 other pedals I have tried in the  
past.  So this discussion is interesting at different level for  
different people.

> I half appologise for my elitist-ish answer.

> answer is over the head of the person who ask, I hope he will ask more

> details after doing some research. Or it might interest someone else.