Joshua Kit Clayton

I just wanted to follow up on the thread regarding HD input into 

Jitter. Previously I had mentioned that HDV input wasn't possible and 

DVCProHD was possible with the FCP installed QT input component on 

Regarding DVCProHD, upon further scrutiny, we noticed only ~10fps as 

output via the QT input component provided with FCP regardless of the 

framerate the patch was capable of regardless of the vmode used. 

Regarding HDV, as is known, there's no QT supplied input component. 

However, both of these problems should be possible to overcome by 

using an input board such as the Kona LHe or BlackMagic DeckLink HD 

(allegedly with better quality than either the DVCProHD or HDV codecs 

if your camera ouputs the original frame rather than the compressed 

For many cameras you will only be able to take analog HD output, but 

if your device supports HD-SDI (like the new Canon HDV camera does) 

you can get an uncompressed digital signal. Still the analog HD 

output from cameras such as the HVX200, despite any additional analog 

noise issues, is allegedly better quality than the compressed 

These cards aren't exactly cheap ($1000-$2000), and they require a 

desktop machine with the appropriate variant of PCI slot, but they 

should provide the best (and most CPU efficient) way to get HD 

footage into jit.qt.grab (and jit.dx.grab for cards with a Direct X 

input component). I might try to get my hands on the Kona LHe 

sometime in the next year, but If anyone else has any experience to 

report on the use of these cards with HD input into jitter, please 

For those of you looking to avoid this PCI card based solution, If we 

discover any way to make the DVCProHD QT input component deliver more 

frames per second, or a third party HDV Direct X or QT input 

I just wanted to follow up on the thread regarding HD input into  
Jitter. Previously I had mentioned that HDV input wasn't possible and  
DVCProHD was possible with the FCP installed QT input component on  
Macintosh.

Regarding DVCProHD, upon further scrutiny, we noticed only ~10fps as  
output via the QT input component provided with FCP regardless of the  
framerate the patch was capable of regardless of the vmode used.  
Regarding HDV, as is known, there's no QT supplied input component.  
However, both of these problems should be possible to overcome by  
using an input board such as the Kona LHe or BlackMagic DeckLink HD  
(allegedly with better quality than either the DVCProHD or HDV codecs  
if your camera ouputs the original frame rather than the compressed  
frame decompressed again).

For many cameras you will only be able to take analog HD output, but  
if your device supports HD-SDI (like the new Canon HDV camera does)  
you can get an uncompressed digital signal. Still the analog HD  
output from cameras such as the HVX200, despite any additional analog  
noise issues, is allegedly better quality than the compressed  
DVCProHD images.

These cards aren't exactly cheap ($1000-$2000), and they require a  
desktop machine with the appropriate variant of PCI slot, but they  
should provide the best (and most CPU efficient) way to get HD  
footage into jit.qt.grab (and jit.dx.grab for cards with a Direct X  
input component). I might try to get my hands on the Kona LHe  
sometime in the next year, but If anyone else has any experience to  
report on the use of these cards with HD input into jitter, please  
share your results.

For those of you looking to avoid this PCI card based solution, If we  
discover any way to make the DVCProHD QT input component deliver more  
frames per second, or a third party HDV Direct X or QT input  
component we'll let you know.

hd-into-jitter

To add to this. I got a hold of a camera from Imaging Source with the

1024 x 768 YUV (4:2:2) @ 15, 7.5, 3.75 fps

1024 x 768 Y (Mono) @ 30, 15, 7.5, 3.75 fps

I'm using it in 1024 x 768 YUV mode and on a dual 2G G5 with a Radeon

9800 I can do a bit of computer vision work and quite a number of

slabs and still maintain a high framerate. It works with no extra

drivers. Since this worked without a problem, I'd imagine their other

http://www.1394imaging.com/en/products/cameras/firewire_color/dfk31af03/overview/

To add to this.  I got a hold of a camera from Imaging Source with the
following specs:

1024 x 768 YUV (4:2:2) @ 15, 7.5, 3.75 fps
1024 x 768 Y (Mono) @ 30, 15, 7.5, 3.75 fps

I'm using it in 1024 x 768 YUV mode and on a dual 2G G5 with a Radeon
9800 I can do a bit of computer vision work and quite a number of
slabs and still maintain a high framerate.  It works with no extra
drivers.  Since this worked without a problem, I'd imagine their other
cameras would work as well.

Here's the link:
http://www.1394imaging.com/en/products/cameras/firewire_color/dfk31af03/overview/

On Aug 16, 2006, at 5:54 PM, Wesley Smith wrote:

> To add to this. I got a hold of a camera from Imaging Source

Out of curiosity, has anyone used the point grey cameras which tout 

http://www.ptgrey.com/products/flea2/index.asp

> To add to this.  I got a hold of a camera from Imaging Source

Out of curiosity, has anyone used the point grey cameras which tout  
1024x768 in color @30fps like the flea2?

I currently have access to a bunch of systems with Kona 3, Kona LH 

and Decklink cards, and a whole machine room of HD decks, and format 

converters. Is there anything in particular you want me to test? I 

could possibly do some fiddling this evening when the editors have left.

I havent seen of any issues, but im curious if there are any known 

incompatibilities of installing the version of Interlok with 4.6 on 

On Aug 16, 2006, at 9:21 PM, Joshua Kit Clayton wrote:

> On Aug 16, 2006, at 5:54 PM, Wesley Smith wrote:

>> To add to this. I got a hold of a camera from Imaging Source

> Out of curiosity, has anyone used the point grey cameras which tout 

> 1024x768 in color @30fps like the flea2?

I currently have access to a bunch of systems with Kona 3, Kona LH  
and Decklink cards, and a whole machine room of HD decks, and format  
converters. Is there anything in particular you want me to test? I  
could possibly do some fiddling this evening when the editors have left.

I havent seen of any issues, but im curious if there are any known  
incompatibilities of installing the version of Interlok with 4.6 on  
systems with Avid, Final Cut, etc.

>
> On Aug 16, 2006, at 5:54 PM, Wesley Smith wrote:
>
>> To add to this.  I got a hold of a camera from Imaging Source
>
> Out of curiosity, has anyone used the point grey cameras which tout  
> 1024x768 in color @30fps like the flea2?
>
> http://www.ptgrey.com/products/flea2/index.asp
>
> -Joshua

I worked with a Kona LHe card on a g5 a few months ago. I was doing

live compositing of 1080i video and was easily geting 30fps (working

on the gpu). The setup was simple and showed up as an input device

> I might try to get my hands on the Kona LHe

> sometime in the next year, but If anyone else has any experience to

> report on the use of these cards with HD input into jitter, please

I worked with a Kona LHe card on a g5 a few months ago.  I was doing
live compositing of 1080i video and was easily geting 30fps (working
on the gpu).  The setup was simple and showed up as an input device
right away.

> I might try to get my hands on the Kona LHe
> sometime in the next year, but If anyone else has any experience to
> report on the use of these cards with HD input into jitter, please
> share your results.


As I've recently had to work with a lot of HDV footage, I can offer 

one alternative solution... although it is not oriented towards 

realtime capture... it's a cheap alternative to expensive capture cards.

There is an excellent shareware app called 'MPEG Streamclip' that can 

transcode any form of MPEG including HDV variants (even the nefarious 

raw .m2t transport streams) It requires Apple's MPEG2 Playback codec 

is installed for it to work. ($20 from Apple)

With Streamclip you can transcode to something other than Apple's 

Intermediate codec, (anything QT) such as photojpeg, animation or 

uncompressed, which should playback much better within JItter. The 

Mac version is UB and there is also a WindowsXP version.

http://www.squared5.com/svideo/mpeg-streamclip-mac.html

http://www.squared5.com/svideo/mpeg-streamclip-win.html

> For those of you looking to avoid this PCI card based solution, If 

> we discover any way to make the DVCProHD QT input component deliver 

> more frames per second, or a third party HDV Direct X or QT input 

As I've recently had to work with a lot of HDV footage, I can offer  
one alternative solution... although it is not oriented towards  
realtime capture... it's a cheap alternative to expensive capture cards.

There is an excellent shareware app called 'MPEG Streamclip' that can  
transcode any form of MPEG including HDV variants (even the nefarious  
raw .m2t transport streams) It requires Apple's MPEG2 Playback codec  
is installed for it to work. ($20 from Apple)

With Streamclip you can transcode to something other than Apple's  
Intermediate codec, (anything QT)  such as  photojpeg, animation or  
uncompressed, which should playback much better within JItter.  The  
Mac version is UB and there is also a WindowsXP version.

> For those of you looking to avoid this PCI card based solution, If  
> we discover any way to make the DVCProHD QT input component deliver  
> more frames per second, or a third party HDV Direct X or QT input  
> component we'll let you know.
>
> Thanks,
> Joshua
>
>


As this post is now a year old I thought I would revisit it and ask if there has been any updates on getting HD into Jitter using a QT component or any software based solution?

Joshua is the situation still as you described it in 2005:

"Quicktime does not support HDV input as a QT video input 

device. It is only Apple proprietary software (iMovie, FCP, etc.) 

https://cycling74.com/forums/index.php?t=msg&goto=54562

I'm very interested to hear any new developments.

"Quicktime does not support HDV input as a QT video input 
device. It is only Apple proprietary software (iMovie, FCP, etc.) 
which can grab from this device"

http://createdigitalmotion.com/2007/05/08/real-time-uncompressed-hd-

mixing-on-the-cheap-with-decklink-intensity/#more-1683

On Aug 20, 2007, at 11:07 PM, darcysays wrote:

> As this post is now a year old I thought I would revisit it and ask 

> if there has been any updates on getting HD into Jitter using a QT 

> component or any software based solution?

> Joshua is the situation still as you described it in 2005:

> "Quicktime does not support HDV input as a QT video input

> device. It is only Apple proprietary software (iMovie, FCP, etc.)

> I'm very interested to hear any new developments.

http://createdigitalmotion.com/2007/05/08/real-time-uncompressed-hd- 
mixing-on-the-cheap-with-decklink-intensity/#more-1683

>
> As this post is now a year old I thought I would revisit it and ask  
> if there has been any updates on getting HD into Jitter using a QT  
> component or any software based solution?
>
> Joshua is the situation still as you described it in 2005:
>
> "Quicktime does not support HDV input as a QT video input
> device. It is only Apple proprietary software (iMovie, FCP, etc.)
> which can grab from this device"
>
> https://cycling74.com/forums/index.php?t=msg&goto=54562
>
> I'm very interested to hear any new developments.
>
> Cheers.

But for us notebook users it sounds like a software only solution is not yet available?

if you want to spend the cash, you could get an AJA IO-HD (should 

work, their prior QT drivers worked in Jitter), or, get a Magma PCI-E 

-> Expresscard adaptor. the HD Intensity is only a 1x card.

or, use a DVCProHD deck/camera via FW. But no HDV QT components for 

On Aug 20, 2007, at 11:38 PM, darcysays wrote:

> But for us notebook users it sounds like a software only solution 

if you want to spend the cash, you could get an AJA IO-HD (should  
work, their prior QT drivers worked in Jitter), or, get a Magma PCI-E  
-> Expresscard adaptor. the HD Intensity is only a 1x card.

or, use a DVCProHD deck/camera via FW. But no HDV QT components for  
capture in other apps AFAIK.

>
> Thanks for the reply.
> Looks good!
>
> But for us notebook users it sounds like a software only solution  
> is not yet available?

On Aug 20, 2007, at 8:07 PM, darcysays wrote:

Yes, as you've already heard from Anton, the situation is the same 

(you'll have better luck talking to Apple or some third party rather 

than us, since we're *definitely* not going to write an HDV driver). 

If purchasing an HDV camera, I would suggest getting one with HDMI 

output and using something like the Intensity card suggested by 

Anton. Won't help you on a laptop though, but I suppose there's 

always more expensive options out there if you really need to find a 

solution (might also consider uncompressed high resolution IIDC 

cameras, such as those sold by imagingsource.com or ptgrey.com which 

> As this post is now a year old I thought I would revisit it and ask  
> if there has been any updates on getting HD into Jitter using a QT  
> component or any software based solution?
>
> Joshua is the situation still as you described it in 2005:
>
> "Quicktime does not support HDV input as a QT video input
> device. It is only Apple proprietary software (iMovie, FCP, etc.)
> which can grab from this device"

Yes, as you've already heard from Anton, the situation is the same  
(you'll have better luck talking to Apple or some third party rather  
than us, since we're *definitely* not going to write an HDV driver).  
If purchasing an HDV camera, I would suggest getting one with HDMI  
output and using something like the Intensity card suggested by  
Anton. Won't help you on a laptop though, but I suppose there's  
always more expensive options out there if you really need to find a  
solution (might also consider uncompressed high resolution IIDC  
cameras, such as those sold by imagingsource.com or ptgrey.com which  
might suit your purposes).

Joshua - those Point Grey cameras look particularly interesting, and 

i had not seen/heard of them before. Has anyone done any work with 

them with jitter ? I dont see any mention of OS X compatibility... 

BTW- welcome back (?) Joshua - if not, GET BACK TO WORK !@#!@# :)

On Aug 21, 2007, at 1:26 AM, Joshua Kit Clayton wrote:

> On Aug 20, 2007, at 8:07 PM, darcysays wrote:

>> As this post is now a year old I thought I would revisit it and 

>> ask if there has been any updates on getting HD into Jitter using 

>> a QT component or any software based solution?

>> Joshua is the situation still as you described it in 2005:

>> "Quicktime does not support HDV input as a QT video input

>> device. It is only Apple proprietary software (iMovie, FCP, etc.)

> Yes, as you've already heard from Anton, the situation is the same 

> (you'll have better luck talking to Apple or some third party 

> rather than us, since we're *definitely* not going to write an HDV 

> driver). If purchasing an HDV camera, I would suggest getting one 

> with HDMI output and using something like the Intensity card 

> suggested by Anton. Won't help you on a laptop though, but I 

> suppose there's always more expensive options out there if you 

> really need to find a solution (might also consider uncompressed 

> high resolution IIDC cameras, such as those sold by 

> imagingsource.com or ptgrey.com which might suit your purposes).

Joshua - those Point Grey cameras look particularly interesting, and  
i had not seen/heard of them before. Has anyone done any work with  
them with jitter ? I dont see any mention of OS X compatibility...  
Anyone got them working?

>
> On Aug 20, 2007, at 8:07 PM, darcysays wrote:
>
>> As this post is now a year old I thought I would revisit it and  
>> ask if there has been any updates on getting HD into Jitter using  
>> a QT component or any software based solution?
>>
>> Joshua is the situation still as you described it in 2005:
>>
>> "Quicktime does not support HDV input as a QT video input
>> device. It is only Apple proprietary software (iMovie, FCP, etc.)
>> which can grab from this device"
>
> Yes, as you've already heard from Anton, the situation is the same  
> (you'll have better luck talking to Apple or some third party  
> rather than us, since we're *definitely* not going to write an HDV  
> driver). If purchasing an HDV camera, I would suggest getting one  
> with HDMI output and using something like the Intensity card  
> suggested by Anton. Won't help you on a laptop though, but I  
> suppose there's always more expensive options out there if you  
> really need to find a solution (might also consider uncompressed  
> high resolution IIDC cameras, such as those sold by  
> imagingsource.com or ptgrey.com which might suit your purposes).
>
> -Joshua

> Joshua - those Point Grey cameras look particularly interesting, and i had

> not seen/heard of them before. Has anyone done any work with them with

> jitter ? I dont see any mention of OS X compatibility... Anyone got them

> BTW- welcome back (?) Joshua - if not, GET BACK TO WORK !@#!@# :)

> On Aug 21, 2007, at 1:26 AM, Joshua Kit Clayton wrote:

> As this post is now a year old I thought I would revisit it and ask if there

> has been any updates on getting HD into Jitter using a QT component or any

> Yes, as you've already heard from Anton, the situation is the same (you'll

> have better luck talking to Apple or some third party rather than us, since

> we're *definitely* not going to write an HDV driver). If purchasing an HDV

> camera, I would suggest getting one with HDMI output and using something

> like the Intensity card suggested by Anton. Won't help you on a laptop

> though, but I suppose there's always more expensive options out there if you

> really need to find a solution (might also consider uncompressed high

> resolution IIDC cameras, such as those sold by imagingsource.com or

> ptgrey.com which might suit your purposes).

On 8/20/07, vade  wrote:
>  Joshua - those Point Grey cameras look particularly interesting, and i had
> not seen/heard of them before. Has anyone done any work with them with
> jitter ? I dont see any mention of OS X compatibility... Anyone got them
> working?
>
> Quite Curious -
>
> BTW- welcome back (?) Joshua - if not, GET BACK TO WORK !@#!@# :)
>
>
> On Aug 21, 2007, at 1:26 AM, Joshua Kit Clayton wrote:
>
>
> On Aug 20, 2007, at 8:07 PM, darcysays wrote:
>
>
> As this post is now a year old I thought I would revisit it and ask if there
> has been any updates on getting HD into Jitter using a QT component or any
> software based solution?
>
> Joshua is the situation still as you described it in 2005:
>
> "Quicktime does not support HDV input as a QT video input
> device. It is only Apple proprietary software (iMovie, FCP, etc.)
> which can grab from this device"
>
> Yes, as you've already heard from Anton, the situation is the same (you'll
> have better luck talking to Apple or some third party rather than us, since
> we're *definitely* not going to write an HDV driver). If purchasing an HDV
> camera, I would suggest getting one with HDMI output and using something
> like the Intensity card suggested by Anton. Won't help you on a laptop
> though, but I suppose there's always more expensive options out there if you
> really need to find a solution (might also consider uncompressed high
> resolution IIDC cameras, such as those sold by imagingsource.com or
> ptgrey.com which might suit your purposes).
>
> -Joshua
>
> v a d e //
>
> www.vade.info
> abstrakt.vade.info
>
>
>
>
>
>


FWIW, the newest MacBook Pro (and iMacs too, I think) have built-in 

1280x1024 iSight cams. I'm curious to know if Apple is going to release 

a standalone version with similar capabilities. Either way, it's pretty 

rad for a little built-in feature and not very noisy either.

FWIW, the newest MacBook Pro (and iMacs too, I think) have built-in 
1280x1024 iSight cams.  I'm curious to know if Apple is going to release 
a standalone version with similar capabilities.  Either way, it's pretty 
rad for a little built-in feature and not very noisy either.

http://www.pixelink.com/products_info.asp?id=68

beauty that i was able to use with jit.dx.grab. but cant adjust any

settings other native 1280 x 1024@27fps . shame about that. as "the camera

can deliver up to 33 fps at 1k x 1k resolution, up to 107 fps at VGA

resolution (640 x 480) and up to 8000 fps at 724 x 8, all with

i don't know if this is related, but it would be neat to get those iidc

settings control on windows like there is on the mac side...

> FWIW, the newest MacBook Pro (and iMacs too, I think) have built-in

> 1280x1024 iSight cams. I'm curious to know if Apple is going to release

> a standalone version with similar capabilities. Either way, it's pretty

> rad for a little built-in feature and not very noisy either.

i got me a pixelink ( http://www.pixelink.com/products_info.asp?id=68 )
beauty that i was able to use with jit.dx.grab. but cant adjust any
settings other native 1280 x 1024@27fps . shame about that. as "the camera
can deliver up to 33 fps at 1k x 1k resolution, up to 107 fps at VGA
resolution (640 x 480) and up to 8000 fps at 724 x 8, all with
user-definable region of interest (ROI)"

i don't know if this is related, but it would be neat to get those iidc
settings control on windows like there is on the mac side...
any chance?

On 8/21/07, Andrew Benson  wrote:
>
> FWIW, the newest MacBook Pro (and iMacs too, I think) have built-in
> 1280x1024 iSight cams.  I'm curious to know if Apple is going to release
> a standalone version with similar capabilities.  Either way, it's pretty
> rad for a little built-in feature and not very noisy either.
>
> AB
>

On Aug 20, 2007, at 10:26 PM, Joshua Kit Clayton wrote:

> If purchasing an HDV camera, I would suggest getting one with HDMI 

> output and using something like the Intensity card suggested by 

> Anton. Won't help you on a laptop though, but I suppose there's 

> always more expensive options out there if you really need to find 

Here's one forthcoming more expensive option ~3000-3500USD. Requires 

HD into jitter