route_dmb@hotmail.com

hay everyone im currently workin on a project for my university using max msp!

I hav no idea bout how to make my patch!!

Im using beer bottles to trigger samples! the way im doing this is that i Have a mic hooked up and wen i hit a beer bottle with a stick! i want that certain pitch of the hittin of the beer bottle to trigger a sample! each beer bottle wil have different ammount of water in it to give them all different pitches! now i need a patch which will first measure the pitch so i know wat pitch to assign to what sample! and secondly i need the patch to have a trigger that wen it recognizes the pitch it will recognize and trigger the sample it has been assigned too! so pretty much use the beer bottles as a drum kit! wen i tap a bottle the microphone will send a signal through max to trigger a sample!!

Im using beer bottles to trigger samples! the way im doing this is that i Have a mic hooked up and wen i hit a beer bottle with a stick! i want that certain pitch of the hittin of the beer bottle to trigger a sample! each beer bottle wil have different ammount of water in it to give them all different pitches! now i need a patch which will first measure the pitch so i know wat pitch to assign to what sample! and secondly i need the patch to have a trigger that wen it recognizes the pitch it will recognize and trigger the sample it  has been assigned too! so pretty much use the beer bottles as a drum kit! wen i tap a bottle the microphone will send a signal through max to trigger a sample!!

help-me-create-my-patch

First thing you will need to do is go through

the first 10 or so tutorials. Once you do that 

you can look at an object called fiddle~. It will

do the pitch detection of the bottles. Another option

would be bonk~. But definitely go through the tutorials 

first, it seems like a lot of work, but in the long

Subject: [maxmsp] Re: HELP ME CREATE MY PATCH!!

> Hard- and software for interactive audiovisual sampling

First thing you will need to do is go through
the first 10 or so tutorials. Once you do that 
you can look at an object called fiddle~. It will
do the pitch detection of the bottles. Another option
would be bonk~. But definitely go through the tutorials 
first, it seems like a lot of work, but in the long
run it will save you a lot of time.

----- Original Message -----
From: Mattijs Kneppers 
Date: Monday, June 18, 2007 10:57 am
Subject: [maxmsp] Re: HELP ME CREATE MY PATCH!!

>
> is this a joke?
> --
> SmadSteck - http://www.smadsteck.nl
> Hard- and software for interactive audiovisual sampling
>


3rd Party objects which could do this - - - - Bonk~ and fiddle~ or pitch~

Bonk is more suited to noisy sounds and is trainable, pitch~ and fiddle~ are

> hay everyone im currently workin on a project for my university using max msp!

> I hav no idea bout how to make my patch!!

> Im using beer bottles to trigger samples! the way im doing this is that i Have

> a mic hooked up and wen i hit a beer bottle with a stick! i want that certain

> pitch of the hittin of the beer bottle to trigger a sample! each beer bottle

> wil have different ammount of water in it to give them all different pitches!

> now i need a patch which will first measure the pitch so i know wat pitch to

> assign to what sample! and secondly i need the patch to have a trigger that

> wen it recognizes the pitch it will recognize and trigger the sample it has

> been assigned too! so pretty much use the beer bottles as a drum kit! wen i

> tap a bottle the microphone will send a signal through max to trigger a

3rd Party objects which could do this - - - - Bonk~ and fiddle~ or pitch~
Bonk is more suited to noisy sounds and is trainable, pitch~ and fiddle~ are
looking for clean pitches.

>
> hay everyone im currently workin on a project for my university using max msp!
>
> I hav no idea bout how to make my patch!!
>
> Im using beer bottles to trigger samples! the way im doing this is that i Have
> a mic hooked up and wen i hit a beer bottle with a stick! i want that certain
> pitch of the hittin of the beer bottle to trigger a sample! each beer bottle
> wil have different ammount of water in it to give them all different pitches!
> now i need a patch which will first measure the pitch so i know wat pitch to
> assign to what sample! and secondly i need the patch to have a trigger that
> wen it recognizes the pitch it will recognize and trigger the sample it  has
> been assigned too! so pretty much use the beer bottles as a drum kit! wen i
> tap a bottle the microphone will send a signal through max to trigger a
> sample!!
>
> who can help me??

if only the first ten tutorials would contain this one:

"punctuation beside exclamation and question marks, or: how not to end your sentence!!!!!"

Another word of advice: If the expectation of your

professor is that the project should be your own

work, you ought to remember that she or he probably

Seriously - the tutorials first. Absolutely. And

fiddle~ and bonk~ is probably the only non-vanilla

Another word of advice: If the expectation of your
professor is that the project should be your own
work, you ought to remember that she or he probably
also reads this list.... :-)

Seriously - the tutorials first. Absolutely. And
fiddle~ and bonk~ is probably the only non-vanilla
stuff you'll need.


speaking as a professor, let me answer for you in your language, my 

maybe you should read the tutorials! and the example patches! 

because chances are yur teeecher is reading your list posting and 

shaking his head! you should give it a try and just work at it! and 

post the patch here if your reeely reely stumped! cause we are not so 

break it down. make a patch which acts as control (good numbers from 

beer bottles) and a patch that acts as playback (samples played when 

for pitch tracking, the easiest way to do it- which is still NOT 

REEELY EEASY BUT WHUT GUD STUFF IN LIFE IZ? is a third party object 

called fiddle~. google 'fiddle msp' and you'll find it.

for sample playback, try sfplay~. for file picking, look at ubumenu 

if this is not enough, go outside and drink. you're never going to 

On Jun 18, 2007, at 11:40 AM, pdotr wrote:

> hay everyone im currently workin on a project for my university 

> Im using beer bottles to trigger samples! the way im doing this is 

> that i Have a mic hooked up and wen i hit a beer bottle with a 

> stick! i want that certain pitch of the hittin of the beer bottle 

> to trigger a sample! each beer bottle wil have different ammount of 

> water in it to give them all different pitches! now i need a patch 

> which will first measure the pitch so i know wat pitch to assign to 

> what sample! and secondly i need the patch to have a trigger that 

> wen it recognizes the pitch it will recognize and trigger the 

> sample it has been assigned too! so pretty much use the beer 

> bottles as a drum kit! wen i tap a bottle the microphone will send 

> a signal through max to trigger a sample!!

speaking as a professor, let me answer for you in your language, my  
man:		

maybe you should read the tutorials!  and the example patches!   
because chances are yur teeecher is reading your list posting and  
shaking his head!  you should give it a try and just work at it!  and  
post the patch here if your reeely reely stumped! cause we are not so  
down on doing yur homework 4 uuuuuuuu!

break it down.  make a patch which acts as control (good numbers from  
beer bottles) and a patch that acts as playback (samples played when  
you provide a bang or #s.)

for pitch tracking, the easiest way to do it- which is still NOT  
REEELY EEASY BUT WHUT GUD STUFF IN LIFE IZ? is a third party object  
called fiddle~.  google 'fiddle msp' and you'll find it.

for sample playback, try sfplay~.  for file picking, look at ubumenu  
and the 'autocomplete prefix' thingy.

if this is not enough, go outside and drink.  you're never going to  
pass.  might as well go get loaded.

>
> hay everyone im currently workin on a project for my university  
> using max msp!
>
> I hav no idea bout how to make my patch!!
>
> Im using beer bottles to trigger samples! the way im doing this is  
> that i Have a mic hooked up and wen i hit a beer bottle with a  
> stick! i want that certain pitch of the hittin of the beer bottle  
> to trigger a sample! each beer bottle wil have different ammount of  
> water in it to give them all different pitches! now i need a patch  
> which will first measure the pitch so i know wat pitch to assign to  
> what sample! and secondly i need the patch to have a trigger that  
> wen it recognizes the pitch it will recognize and trigger the  
> sample it  has been assigned too! so pretty much use the beer  
> bottles as a drum kit! wen i tap a bottle the microphone will send  
> a signal through max to trigger a sample!!
>
> who can help me??
>


Joshua, your condescending tone is not necessary. 

Simple advice or "do the tutorials" would suffice. 

Of course we always want to encourage people to take

the initiative and not be lazy, but you should avoid 

Subject: Re: [maxmsp] HELP ME CREATE MY PATCH!!

> speaking as a professor, let me answer for you in your language, 

> maybe you should read the tutorials! and the example patches! 

> because chances are yur teeecher is reading your list posting and 

> shaking his head! you should give it a try and just work at it! 

> post the patch here if your reeely reely stumped! cause we are not 

> break it down. make a patch which acts as control (good numbers 

> beer bottles) and a patch that acts as playback (samples played 

> for pitch tracking, the easiest way to do it- which is still NOT 

> REEELY EEASY BUT WHUT GUD STUFF IN LIFE IZ? is a third party 

> called fiddle~. google 'fiddle msp' and you'll find it.

> for sample playback, try sfplay~. for file picking, look at 

> if this is not enough, go outside and drink. you're never going 

> On Jun 18, 2007, at 11:40 AM, pdotr wrote:

> > hay everyone im currently workin on a project for my university 

> > I hav no idea bout how to make my patch!!

> > Im using beer bottles to trigger samples! the way im doing this 

> > that i Have a mic hooked up and wen i hit a beer bottle with a 

> > stick! i want that certain pitch of the hittin of the beer 

> > to trigger a sample! each beer bottle wil have different ammount 

Joshua, your condescending tone is not necessary. 
Simple advice or "do the tutorials" would suffice. 
Of course we always want to encourage people to take
the initiative and not be lazy, but you should avoid 
introducing negativity to the forum. 

----- Original Message -----
From: joshua goldberg 
Date: Monday, June 18, 2007 12:29 pm
Subject: Re: [maxmsp] HELP ME CREATE MY PATCH!!

> speaking as a professor, let me answer for you in your language, 
> my  
> man:        	
>
> maybe you should read the tutorials!  and the example patches!   
> because chances are yur teeecher is reading your list posting and  
> shaking his head!  you should give it a try and just work at it!  
> and  
> post the patch here if your reeely reely stumped! cause we are not 
> so  
> down on doing yur homework 4 uuuuuuuu!
>
> ok, serious answer here:
>
> break it down.  make a patch which acts as control (good numbers 
> from  
> beer bottles) and a patch that acts as playback (samples played 
> when  
> you provide a bang or #s.)
>
> too hard still?
>
> for pitch tracking, the easiest way to do it- which is still NOT  
> REEELY EEASY BUT WHUT GUD STUFF IN LIFE IZ? is a third party 
> object  
> called fiddle~.  google 'fiddle msp' and you'll find it.
>
> for sample playback, try sfplay~.  for file picking, look at 
> ubumenu  
> and the 'autocomplete prefix' thingy.
>
> if this is not enough, go outside and drink.  you're never going 
> to  
> pass.  might as well go get loaded.
>
> On Jun 18, 2007, at 11:40 AM, pdotr wrote:
>
> >
> > hay everyone im currently workin on a project for my university  
> > using max msp!
> >
> > I hav no idea bout how to make my patch!!
> >
> > Im using beer bottles to trigger samples! the way im doing this 
> is  
> > that i Have a mic hooked up and wen i hit a beer bottle with a  
> > stick! i want that certain pitch of the hittin of the beer 
> bottle  
> > to trigger a sample! each beer bottle wil have different ammount 
> of  
> > water in it to give them all different pitches! now i need a 
> patch  
> > which will first measure the pitch so i know wat pitch to assign 
> to  
> > what sample! and secondly i need the patch to have a trigger 
> that  
> > wen it recognizes the pitch it will recognize and trigger the  
> > sample it  has been assigned too! so pretty much use the beer  
> > bottles as a drum kit! wen i tap a bottle the microphone will 
> send  
> > a signal through max to trigger a sample!!
> >
> > who can help me??
> >
>
>


my condescending tone was accompanied by the only advice to the student which pointed him in a concrete direction besides 'read the tutorials' or 'go get fiddle~.' i gave him advice.

i do not retract my words at all. i made fun of him, yes, but i also gave him some pretty valuable advice: break down the task, use this object and this object.

we see this again and again: students posting panicked requests for others to write their patches. it should not be coddled. smack them upside the head for being such catastrophic dumbasses, then point them in the right direction. that's my pedagogic philosophy right there, in a nutshell, when confronted with student activity like this (and i've seen it many times):

2) here's how to fix that state of affairs if you really care

it's worked for me for five years of teaching max. and my teaching ratings are consistently high.

my condescending tone was accompanied by the only advice to the student which pointed him in a concrete direction besides 'read the tutorials' or 'go get fiddle~.'  i gave him advice.

i do not retract my words at all.  i made fun of him, yes, but i also gave him some pretty valuable advice:  break down the task, use this object and this object.

we see this again and again:  students posting panicked requests for others to write their patches.  it should not be coddled.  smack them upside the head for being such catastrophic dumbasses, then point them in the right direction.  that's my pedagogic philosophy right there, in a nutshell, when confronted with student activity like this (and i've seen it many times):

1) you're a flipping dumbass
2) here's how to fix that state of affairs if you really care
3) don't bother me again if you don't.

it's worked for me for five years of teaching max.  and my teaching ratings are consistently high.


i need to drink 10 bottles of beer but there is no beer in my house anymore!!!!

help!!!! joshua!!!!
i need to drink 10 bottles of beer but there is no beer in my house anymore!!!!
can you buy me some????

> break it down. make a patch which acts as control (good numbers from 

> beer bottles) and a patch that acts as playback (samples played when 

Actually, if you look at the original posting, it would 

appear that the assignment itself is quite well broken

down into its component parts if you parse the original

sentences. That would, I think, be a great way to approach

the problem - decide which objects are right for which

> break it down.  make a patch which acts as control (good numbers from  
> beer bottles) and a patch that acts as playback (samples played when  
> you provide a bang or #s.)

Actually, if you look at the original posting, it would 
appear that the assignment itself is quite well broken
down into its component parts if you parse the original
sentences. That would, I think, be a great way to approach
the problem - decide which objects are right for which
tasks.


I agree that it's enormously frustrating for a teacher to see students 

take this tack. My personal favorite is the shoddily-constructed final 

project that's practically copied from my in-class files accompanied by 

a note more or less of the construction: "It was hard. I tried. Oh 

Some points for those of us who teach Max that might be useful: (or 

- It's important that we let our students know the appropriate manner 

to use the forum. Directing students to the "How to Ask Questions the 

Smart Way" article is a good first step towards making sure that their 

- Let your students know that you are a member of the forum and see 

the posts. Cheating online is the same as cheating with classmates and 

is subject to the institution's academic honor code which can often be 

- I think it's also important that students be reminded that if they're 

struggling, they should talk to their instructor as soon as possible, 

as he/she will be able to address both their question as well as some 

larger conceptual or programming issues that are causing trouble. 

There's definitely no substitute to watching someone work so you can 

see where the chain breaks down, and the further they fall behind, the 

Also, can anyone recommend a very, very simple online introduction to 

programmatic problem-solving? I think learning how to break down 

problems into smaller ones is really important, and it'd be nice if 

someone has come up with an elegant way to teach this already.

On Jun 18, 2007, at 3:36 PM, joshua goldberg wrote:

> my condescending tone was accompanied by the only advice to the 

> student which pointed him in a concrete direction besides 'read the 

> tutorials' or 'go get fiddle~.' i gave him advice.

> i do not retract my words at all. i made fun of him, yes, but i also 

> gave him some pretty valuable advice: break down the task, use this 

> we see this again and again: students posting panicked requests for 

> others to write their patches. it should not be coddled. smack them 

> upside the head for being such catastrophic dumbasses, then point them 

> in the right direction. that's my pedagogic philosophy right there, 

> in a nutshell, when confronted with student activity like this (and 

> 2) here's how to fix that state of affairs if you really care

> it's worked for me for five years of teaching max. and my teaching 

I agree that it's enormously frustrating for a teacher to see students 
take this tack.  My personal favorite is the shoddily-constructed final 
project that's practically copied from my in-class files accompanied by 
a note more or less of the construction:  "It was hard.  I tried.  Oh 
well."    Two out of three ain't bad...

Some points for those of us who teach Max that might be useful: (or 
mere pontifications...)

- It's important that we let our students know the appropriate manner 
to use the forum.  Directing students to the "How to Ask Questions the 
Smart Way" article is a good first step towards making sure that their 
questions get answered.
-  Let your students know that you are a member of the forum and see 
the posts.  Cheating online is the same as cheating with classmates and 
is subject to the institution's academic honor code which can often be 
severe.
- I think it's also important that students be reminded that if they're 
struggling, they should talk to their instructor as soon as possible, 
as he/she will be able to address both their question as well as some 
larger conceptual or programming issues that are causing trouble.  
There's definitely no substitute to watching someone work so you can 
see where the chain breaks down, and the further they fall behind, the 
less I can do about it.

Also, can anyone recommend a very, very simple online introduction to 
programmatic problem-solving?  I think learning how to break down 
problems into smaller ones is really important, and it'd be nice if 
someone has come up with an elegant way to teach this already.

>
> my condescending tone was accompanied by the only advice to the 
> student which pointed him in a concrete direction besides 'read the 
> tutorials' or 'go get fiddle~.'  i gave him advice.
>
> i do not retract my words at all.  i made fun of him, yes, but i also 
> gave him some pretty valuable advice:  break down the task, use this 
> object and this object.
>
> we see this again and again:  students posting panicked requests for 
> others to write their patches.  it should not be coddled.  smack them 
> upside the head for being such catastrophic dumbasses, then point them 
> in the right direction.  that's my pedagogic philosophy right there, 
> in a nutshell, when confronted with student activity like this (and 
> i've seen it many times):
>
> 1) you're a flipping dumbass
> 2) here's how to fix that state of affairs if you really care
> 3) don't bother me again if you don't.
>
> it's worked for me for five years of teaching max.  and my teaching 
> ratings are consistently high.
>
>
www.petermcculloch.com


> Also, can anyone recommend a very, very simple online introduction to 

I am shameless in harping on this during the Max beginner-only

workshops, and I am told that some number of my students have

Almost every single Max problem breaks down into three bits:

a. The Max code that does the work you want in the end will

expect some kind of message that tells it what to do. You

b. At some point, there's something someplace in your

patch that is spitting out or generating control data.

A video camera, a MIDI keyboard, your computer keyboard,

a little Max applet that calculates a Navier-Stokes

equation, whatever. You need to understand what form that

output takes. Is it a stream of numbers? Is is a bunch of

lists? Is it data from a serial port? Does it come from a

bunch of places? One of the things that you need to know

has to do with what those messages are, and how Max does

what it does. Read the Overview chapter in the Fundamentals

manual. Read "How MSP Works" and the Audio I/O chapter in

the MSP tutorial. Ditto the "What is a matrix?" and opening

tutorials in Jitter. If you don't know that stuff, you'll be

making all kinds of mistakes all the time you can avoid

c. Finally, the question for you and every other schlub in

the Max world is: "How to I take the messages from the

start end of the chain [camera/keyboard] I am getting

and put them in a form that the Max objects at the end of

my patch chain will understand?" Not only is that THE THING

THAT EVERYONE DOES ALL THE TIME, what you wind up with as

a result will, in time, become part of another chain of

Max things that will have you asking questions a., b., and

> Also, can anyone recommend a very, very simple online introduction to 
> programmatic problem-solving?  

I am shameless in harping on this during the Max beginner-only
workshops, and I am told that some number of my students have
found it useful:

a. The Max code that does the work you want in the end will
expect some kind of message that tells it what to do. You
need to know what that message IS.

b. At some point, there's something someplace in your
patch that is spitting out or generating control data.
A video camera, a MIDI keyboard, your computer keyboard,
a little Max applet that calculates a Navier-Stokes
equation, whatever. You need to understand what form that
output takes. Is it a stream of numbers? Is is a bunch of
lists? Is it data from a serial port? Does it come from a
bunch of places? One of the things that you need to know
has to do with what those messages are, and how Max does
what it does. Read the Overview chapter in the Fundamentals
manual. Read "How MSP Works" and the Audio I/O chapter in
the MSP tutorial. Ditto the "What is a matrix?" and opening
tutorials in Jitter. If you don't know that stuff, you'll be
making all kinds of mistakes all the time you can avoid
with a little effort.

c. Finally, the question for you and every other schlub in
the Max world is: "How to I take the messages from the
start end of the chain [camera/keyboard] I am getting
and put them in a form that the Max objects at the end of
my patch chain will understand?" Not only is that THE THING
THAT EVERYONE DOES ALL THE TIME, what you wind up with as
a result will, in time, become part of another chain of
Max things that will have you asking questions a., b., and
c., all over again.


I don't think that the question is about how to solve problems in 

Max, but rather strategies for how one looks at an aesthetic problem 

and turns it into a soluble computer problem. How to turn an idea 

into a question, and how to answer a question logically.

So, how to identify what the parts of the problem are, and what kinds 

of mechanisms exist for dealing with them, presuming general 

I would love to have a document like this to give to my students, as 

well. It's the most challenging part of teaching Max to creative 