i have a problem with seq, look into my patch and add an event with add msg at position 0 as you can see in the max window seq read the event and the flush (who is banged at the end of the loop) arrived after
how to synchronize that?
what’s your problem, man??????
ok, i try to explain again,
in this patch i use a seq and add an event at position 0,
and i make a flush at the end of the loop, so when i play the sequence i must have first the event noteon 60 100 and when the sequence reaches the end the flush generates the noteoff 60 0.
In fact, the flush generates the noteoff just after the noteon
perhaps it’s normal but i want to know how to resynchronize that
the behaviour of your current patch seems indeed a bit inconsistent. Not sure what you try to do, but maybe this is a valid approach ?
----------begin_max5_patcher---------- 1069.3ocyY1sbapCDG+Z6mBMbaygQqjPBNW09bzoSGgQ0lVrfCfaSamlm8ij .rcRCezZfjKBNrlf9u+zpcWo7ysa7hyuWU4g9Wz6Qa17ysa13LYMro89MdGk 2uKSV4dLOs5a4we16tlupVcesy7aPPmsOkqqqR+gxZGH93Vy5SGS0YpZ2qgb wX9o5NqPq0FS0euP0nLuTsYT9P62VHq2cHUu+ikpc0MO.f4lwAQ.v9Ak3GXt A6iO+2jl3ToQ4+CAesP0xitAw6ckoxLO6W7qsasWtah.oVFelFx3VV5UcHur FoyqMz8NjWVtde6cm0zT3D7rbhNDmLil6mg3kgMhfy7RDZ4EMvOhGJBdNlA7 AX14gozXuVU9QkVFm4dB7eAO6I.aurVgHyQTFoO5MJ15BynBG1n9TJkDR5OV CBl2XsdXSMJCE6cygUCBlXod+vvgiuvCNe7Eh.akfSLJaAgiCLSMxYRbgLub 4nppRtW8afQUJqTHYV1Bl3dPnPEt0Q.fseD3PCD97PIZdYh5GIxcO3McODOf aD3zO0jF07AKn65y4Fh4bBrHS98dRHRWiYOaPLHXW7ZHpmHZLrJK0Kj69BBi vuTAz1Tf1Hgl5CAACtJmNdI0c4Y4ksuZ6aD6yZu.1W57AtOkcp5vsGHQFouj Qaiqgejnq4GzC+Duh3WQopPoSP.ic6UZtsXOAtskNb+wdz0Y0XoY9FUo9uaG ICj8MHxk+osFhXH2dcRBcLMI0H8E0oamra8ZVzPdcvp40o5EL3eh4NZCGHCQ D15zekLIwVLxGwwl9+vuT0oINh.TWcZSk3gJTGFNunI9Tcct1aFl9Gc6GTL0 OHjRYL6FzXcy+CjDjNm45NHqxKe.AZzayxMcgrjskUktWalOFbRW.9.mKfvl IayURStwdJmFJVmEEImNV7RsR.hBOuCUyBRKN3C225beVQCVorWzLWUMHTvW DA7Pw4kH7gKXBQqh+a5Q3g+jfh+vSEaRGIVWum13BJPrasgStjQomkMQ74rK T2H3kkpe5Qx5zq09iYaU9oxccdY2YahtHzDUUcpVVmZxAe4grGJ0UOzgzjDk 95PmjzJ6A3kz+I3MU8XO2vQ0ySD8hpmfovGx5pGXL8vVM8DwmZ7CrN7gME9H Vu4K1T3yJpGxqL9PdcwmnIHmmDyu3KuHinGSeoqpdFM7AhVMAY2+wsOgY1KZ Qtoip1hnT2+dKvzpGvB3Qf82idroKi374JhEvUHgXedWa8BlOOD3rqbnylV. Ghs.9SmtsSQP.uoqqmXZAbE5Dbk0qIoonF3uhqT6Ao1xUd3isr.XElRHOLV5 sQZWdYTMLEUCulT8ThZnqXge7RjtCK7C61vNC9sbDmMsD.FCKYyCMa0SVT7U UYU66zoEyFl+bSjD+N2so5lacuQuR0WS6d9vs121u19+.ifqDGB -----------end_max5_patcher-----------
the behaviour of the [seq~] object, in fact, seems unreliable… sometimes it outputs twice its content, sometimes once… though i do’nt know that obejct well, but it does seem odd.
yes my patch is just an illustration of my problem and you’re right i have a lot of problem with this object but tell me what are you using for midi sequencing?
hem… i usually do it outside Max… but when i do it inside, i rather use [seq] (the non-signal version – i did not know of the signal one, it seems pretty recent) and if i was going to do a big project with midi sequencing i’d look at graphical things, like [detonate], or the bach library (http://www.bachproject.net/home) or thigns like the [note~] external (http://www.noteformax.net/data/index.php/en/) or the rs.delos (http://cycling74.com/forums/topic/announce-rs-delos-a-maxmsp-timeline-external-released/, not free), but i’d say [seq~] seems cool… if only it was consistant… you could also try to use [techno~] if you need signal-driven sequencing, it’s cool, albeit maybe less than seq~.
maybe its worth reporting a bug to cycling regarding seq~’s output inconsistant repetition.
yes you’re right, it’s incredible that max haven’t a reliable midi sequencer, another problem is if you make an add 0 0. like i do in my patch the event is not played every time
Regarding the original patch, I think there is a timing conflict between the note playing at time 0 and the edge detector banging at time 0. Apparently the detector bang is sent just after the note and thus triggers an immediate note off. I’ve checked that a small delay of the note (eg. start time 0.1) avoids this timing problem but not sure about a general solution. In my experience synchronization with phasor~ is inherently problematic.
can you tell me if you use midi sequencing and what are you using for that?
Yes, I’m using [seq] with start/stop synchronization from transport.
ok, i try that it’s working not bad, are you making live recording?
Yes, recording and playback works perfectly for me.
are you making a flush at the end of the loop for eliminate the handle note?
do you quantize the note when you record?
No quantization and no flush at recording.
But I’m recording only linear sequences, ie. there is no loop.
have you a patch that can reproduce output seq~’s inconsistant repetition i’m going to report the differents problems to cycling.
I just used the patch, and a print at the output of seq~.
----------begin_max5_patcher---------- 832.3ocwWsrbaBCEcs8WgFV6xnGfPtqZ+G5tNc5HCpNJAKnHbpSxD+sW8.rI wwfSrwYgAy0xRmy49jmlNIXQwFgN.7UvOASl7zzISblrFlz77jfU7Mo4bsaY A5zhRw1fY9epjWmdiTs72UhzZ+1PRvgvY.RTj8Fh.2cC7ql+kZ8JoJWT61Q7 diEqqasBarJybmZwha+BBFXs87zo1KyNQ7tvAQQUOHNB4PLZNML1bi5P7wAb KzT7UBO3JEpeTwU5xhp5PyoaNifSkUrOBoVIzZ9RQ6gTK13nRfnhqE.ddder E6Yabr8VL08.aHuimD0OTJ76RPP202ghnFq+oPUqkO5VtSeOf4yC5rzch42q j77OhlHdLimtsWhmX8u3HCwIHr4qQNIvd8LCMStjNwxb9C.TODggc7.MuE81 X2w0ARBeyDRzk0EpD+yruGJHURUMPK9aOZBJgY0AbhSThSbObzTXTuN1gCcu N7dkLSJU8PZLz67gtRsQ3SizGDIXT2yOaN5xJIGK4fmkAf.XHfBM7F1i3j36 +3CHLgpeZoIL1kUZVrtttnuvBRDKLlQLcf2kPfgevXiEb0xgjfNbkPtj482v 0EUaAHE3a4Eo20aQQBhFhnzDDaFf5c8XeU.z61mqkKUFey464StNIEYqWU1W YhHRHgPvLrQT78KnehcMvvqXWigjlDZXxbDkkrKUgN18NPyuJ72zub6v8N5L MDhh2W1.8tqTDLq4yQhPHmbDxbZOBTyujVjWT0z52xCXXTyEGx6HiN3DjKUu 98bbhh09K0Vcw5pzVR0lEC1qFYBcsTwqklZv6Wj4kS5tnajYYBU2.iLoluHW 3XI7M8xmJdrxyv3Y.3XlsnrvjfznIXTjalxDiCAEScgCrjWZZ+IdwnhaBxA4 xqH7XpsthSmOfds5FiCYsEfYl2xrQhaT88lFAINZL3SKtIGREx3QkSJQ78xE BNNj1L2f8UpnLDMBsiP6MMFDhMBDx5Ar3FFZ50Sm2kJslFAp3PIZnhR1VeWy pj3A.jYb0qFdFyBc9db7xx6EU5l8zgDyjB256SRm4dTp7O5ZiGTItW1tdW+4 .dkYPgZyTBqq7cc2vnlgRLmyyS+O.5sjNC -----------end_max5_patcher-----------
Notably, this happens only when using the "global transport" patcher in the extras, and only when said patcher is opened : if you open this, activate it, then the inconsistency is there ; but if you then close the "global transport" patcher (without desactivating) your example continues to run, and this time, there is no inconsistancy. So, i’m not sure anymore who is the culprit : it might very well be the "global transport" patcher, the [transport] object, the [phasor~] behavior when synced with unit timing system, or the unit timing system itself…
i don’t understand this sentence "only when said pather is opened"
i try it but i don’t have this problem but i have another problem :
sometime the event in 0. is not played
of course you are in overdrive but have you in audio interrupt : on?
i modifiy the patch to add other events :
----------begin_max5_patcher---------- 882.3ocyWksbaBCE8Y6uBM7rKi1PH5Ss+C8sNc5HaTSTJVPAbpSxj7sWs.1j DSRfhWxLABWTPmy4tpGlOKXY9VYU.3yfuClM6g4yl4LYMLq44YAqEaWkIpbK KXsrpRbkLXg+c0xs0N6hzT.D.CSL+.XL.BBaWS9l5LYc8cER+FED.9QyqzaV qzlW5913FiEh5UWqzW8yR4pZ++BAyBgK.XB1dCQftaIgvceoekqqqT261BDw 7ZuYUpCc4Ku4SjfNKUKV6VZvWKUhrf8vwCVGdPViONet8xhIRdh.L5DqMXtW ahSbhBjOBsAeJzlpU4ExmBFH8hhczKBw655s21wuNDAAOLdgi.uKcnQVdPDC 6GwLjCwjXi61.UlCw8AXdO3s0ZquvHc5uUJzUE4k0gFbZ13fIL.UVJpj.QV1 DFYx7YsDrKxLx8f0Md3.S7gBLSNEAlx6SEqFbfIifr9WpMUifv1+LxxP60C4 oimtHy9bhEYh6.nIt1hgXjDRKyFboEDDcJ7gZ4eM61qUjRktFTI+yA8tn2ni CG6ori4QwtRrvAE6NXdCmNduVkpT5diDLhROACugjPgI9FMtJwT7HjD5kPOX .CN0sf8RBwGrXh3GQdBmeJzlkapqy6OtXoPe0vCLhhvgQbBIltKgACeUzQ2Q wHG+D+qEU4kOAPZvWxxW862nrXk5JsQiGrWOxPODiES41IS8imf8EJPCy0Ge NSKR2rtXByEnz3PBgf4XSBAxUwfMp9FX3YuuQWo4CWkjCCiSPLd7tjA1n5df RNi8OLcLep+fhEM+N1VHclYBw70NnzAm1jvFp.QZrtJOKuziHWoZXHs4hCAc jQGbBxT5WdJYG4r1et1VkuobUqN0bpSvdRkJqpUZQsxTCd+ZrDoyhtVklJ0c OEPppRrLSl1uS9iBG7kEbRtvficqvuCdHjSKdPuCdbEJNQ.xNjx+uCyLbZQt o9ZU6gLhcGxfSCQzHVBxVff+bS62xoiKwGAtDYNqKqYl.6olXbDi1gP6LcDH D8HvmVbaN.TDJh4Nk6KMcDnhq4+zSlHVHuczDF7ULZmoiAirGC9hqV26gGzn hVri.BazVRB54lNWYxH3HkV+H.hhhakkUMeSGTLCRcieLB1B2iJs+Q2.PAkx aUsq2M3QfnzLOTsYXnMk9QU1xnAys6yiy+2yCR0O -----------end_max5_patcher-----------
Just had a closer look at the phasor~ helpfile. There is a subpatch ‘using phasor~ with a metro’ comparing both synchronization methods on different stereo channels. I’ve connected a live.gain~ to observe the output channels and noticed that sometimes the very first beat from phaser~ is missing at transport start. This confirms my experience of unreliable phaser~ synchronization and may be related to your problems with seq~.
there’s a typo, i meant "only when said patcher is opened" – in the context, "said patcher" refering to "global transport".
ok, thank you
i am waiting for support response,
but i think that the seq~ object must be rethink in the manner of the groove~ object for example with a start and end of the loop, with synchronization output….
i believe asking for a looping function is asked a bit too much from seq, as "end of the file" or "last event" is not exactly an information you will find in midi files – not talking of data recorded live into seq.
for building a midi sequencer you might want to look into the detonate object first … before telling the support that you dont like seq, that is.
detonate is a bit weird at first, because you must use an external counter in conjunction with detonates delta time output, but when you get used to it you will find out that it is the perfect logic for a midi player object.
a working example of this kind of implementation should be somewhere in the detonate help file.
Asking for a midi sequencer with looping function makes perfect sense to me. There is no reason why midi and audio should be handled differently in this regard. A good example are clips in Ableton Live where both midi and audio clips have exactly the same looping functions.
As for [detonate], I don’t see much benefit over [seq] unless you want dynamic tempo changes.
one of detonates benefits over seq is that you can build a looping function with it.
the only thing worth criticizing about seq is its misleading name. it should be called player.
and i really dont think that a programming language deserves a full featured "sequencer" with looping, overdubbing and quantisation.
the comparison between ableton live 9.0 and a max external from 1992 seems inappropiate. (but maybe thats just me, i also dont use groove~ or omx~ or nodes.)
i’m perfectly ok with Broc, i don’t understand why audio object evoluates and get benefit of time format, looping fonction etc… and not midi (external from 1992) it’s time to have a modern and reliable midi sequencer!!!
then build one – maxmsp would be the right tool for it. :)
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