blackyogurt

I've been trying to work on creating tones that are somewhat minimalistic, yet continuously evolving.

I'm hugely inspired by the work of Eliane Radigue. I was wondering would anyone have advice on creating patches in Max for this

type of composition? Would it be necessary to implement just Intonation, 1/3 octave filtering etc...?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2U0q4lZiFg

Hello.
I've been trying to work on creating tones that are somewhat minimalistic, yet continuously evolving.
I'm hugely inspired by the work of Eliane Radigue. I was wondering would anyone have advice on creating patches in Max for this
type of composition? Would it be necessary to implement just Intonation, 1/3 octave filtering etc...?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2U0q4lZiFg


minimalism

do you know Mika Vanio , Pan Sonic works ?

by the way ,what kind of advice actually do you need ?

how this work is differ from normal studio/home workflow and a sequencer ?

these sound structures follows simple sound synthesis principles ,as additivity , modulating ,amplitudes etc .

...and multiplication . i found really good reason for adding some noise into frequency modulation chain of an oscillator , actually everywhere ,just the amount matters .

i found her work really pleasing ,
do you know Mika Vanio , Pan Sonic works ?
by the way ,what kind of advice actually do you need ?
how this work is differ from normal studio/home workflow and a sequencer ?
these sound structures follows simple sound synthesis principles ,as additivity , modulating ,amplitudes etc .

edit :
...and multiplication . i found really good reason for adding some noise into frequency modulation chain of an oscillator , actually everywhere ,just the amount matters .


Imitating Eliane Radigue? Well, non-twelve tone equal temperament (!12tET) just means that 

 isn't going to give you the frequency values you want/need. For that, you could calculate the whole-number ratios on the fly for any N-limit just stuff, or you could create an abstraction that replaced the 

 object and kicked out the frequency numbers you want to work with. The 

 object will certainly give you 1/3 octave stuff, and the 

 object does a fine job of kicking out looooooong ramps which can be scaled for nonlinearity [alternately, you could use the multisegment envelope generator in the 

 examples folder for that sort of control). Alternately, UCBerkeley's magnificent 

 and its brothers and sister helper objects will hand you giant banks of sinusoidal operators. I'd start there.

Imitating Eliane Radigue? Well, non-twelve tone equal temperament (!12tET) just means that mtof isn't going to give you the frequency values you want/need. For that, you could calculate the whole-number ratios on the fly for any N-limit just stuff, or you could create an abstraction that replaced the mtof object and kicked out the frequency numbers you want to work with. The fffb~ object will certainly give you 1/3 octave stuff, and the line~ object does a fine job of kicking out looooooong ramps which can be scaled for nonlinearity [alternately, you could use the multisegment envelope generator in the gen~ examples folder for that sort of control). Alternately, UCBerkeley's magnificent sinusoids~ object (http://cnmat.berkeley.edu/patch/4072) and its brothers and sister helper objects will hand you giant banks of sinusoidal operators. I'd start there.


Thank you Gregory. I wouldn't say I want to imitate Eliane - but i'm definitely interested in the minimalistic approach. I will internalize the information you provided me.

Kris, yes, I attended a Vainio gig a couple of weeks ago. His work is too inconsistent for me, but I respect him greatly as an artist, and his love for electronic tones.

inconsistent from the perspective of time ?

Perhaps he's referring to inconsistency in that real minimalism is supposed to deafen you more slowly.... :-)

thats funny and so real :) but now i think its not minimalism anymore ,perhaps its a "noise" where inconsistency is presented as a purpose . i guess , this strategy is a consequence of dealing with chaos ,or its a human unablity to take it under control as a whole , which makes it more human at the end and we are observing an art of a struggling :D and i can find it beautiful :D

This is only a personal perspective, but i find that some elements of his work I love, some I really dislike - his beat orientated work, for example.

Although this can be the mindset of many people with regard to any artists output, I find it particularly so with regards Vainio.

His catalog has moments of real beauty, though:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5oyfh9E01I

This is only a personal perspective, but i find that some elements of his work I love, some I really dislike - his beat orientated work, for example.
Although this can be the mindset of many people with regard to any artists output, I find it particularly so with regards Vainio.
His catalog has moments of real beauty, though:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5oyfh9E01I


yes i know what you mean ! im personally fine with the drumworks as well all the Carsten Nicolai and Raster Noton artist .

i found percusive elements very natural for my perception of a piece ,of a sound piece . im actually expecting or decoding rhtythms from everywhere , from sounds and textures where particular rhythm doesnt exists , rapid changes and repetitions , you can find it in minimal art of graphics too . so im dealing with it everytime with wish for it . im actually fascinated by the rhythms but i can understand why it may be distracting , it is switching your focus ,translation is different

yes i know what you mean ! im personally fine with the drumworks as well all the Carsten Nicolai and Raster Noton artist .
i found percusive elements very natural for my perception of a piece ,of a sound piece . im actually expecting or decoding rhtythms from everywhere , from sounds and textures where particular rhythm doesnt exists , rapid changes and repetitions , you can find it in minimal art of graphics too . so im dealing with it everytime with wish for it . im actually fascinated by the rhythms but i can understand why it may be distracting , it is switching your focus ,translation is different


I totally get what you're coming from. For me, I guess you described it well when you said that it can be a distraction for others.

I was wondering what makes so minimalism intriguing? The subtlety, meditative qualities, duration? Probably all three.

I totally get what you're coming from. For me, I guess you described it well when you said that it can be a  distraction for others.
I was wondering what makes so minimalism intriguing? The subtlety, meditative qualities, duration? Probably all three.


i think (and it has something to do with the rhtythm) the "space between" makes everything special . pauses , silency , where you can see nothing to expect next or remind last ,where you start to understand the structure as it is i guess . opposite to this would be the situation where you are receiving too much informations as a noise where you need to contemplate too much , you/we need time for sound and structure . i think rhythms make me feel more like coordinats where things are indexed in timecode ,but that might also works against . i see it liek this ,but im opened to change my perspective ,im searching for a new reference points everytime i back to the piece ,to discover again maybe , its great to hear what other people think and see

Ahhh tape, how lovely, so much time to actually think about making the thing while editing etc.

I have always had a mental picture of those Pan Sonic guys in a hut somewhere 'north'.

Looking out over an snowy ice desert style landscape.

@blackyogurt
Nice video! Hadn't seen that, thanks.
Ahhh tape, how lovely, so much time to actually think about making the thing while editing etc.

@KrisW
I have always had a mental picture of those Pan Sonic guys in a hut somewhere 'north'.
Looking out over an snowy ice desert style landscape.


Simon thats actually a good picture !!! the great sound of nothing :D beautiful

'Take your oscillator & play one good note here'

Well to slightly borrow an old adage
'Take your oscillator & play one good note here'


I'm really looking forward to making this style of composition in Max. Its seems perfectly suited. I used to think that I needed excessive amount of analog equipment, but i'm quite comfortable working in Max at this point in time. I've been bouncing stuff out onto an 8 track, and doing improvised pieces whilst tracks are looped. It's a slightly archaic way of working, but it's nice to have the balance between working with the computer, and working away from it.

Simon, yes it's quite a video, very insightful, wish it was longer to be honest.

you know ... making limitations might lead to great results ,as you are dealing with only what you have ,you are focusing on possibilities in this particular environment (limited one) ,making impossible into possible . In my works ive limited myself only to a sampler , in the past it was an akai . now again im not generating sound on the fly ,im preparing stuff for later use or resynthesis ,im limiting possibilities as a purpose ,and then use the skills to make it unique . i love this challenge . i would stick to the 8track too :)

edit : does this 8track has a format comperssion ? it stores loops in a format right ?

you know ... making limitations might lead to great results ,as you are dealing with only what you have ,you are focusing on possibilities in this particular environment (limited one) ,making impossible into possible . In my works ive limited myself only to a sampler , in the past it was an akai . now again im not generating sound on the fly ,im preparing stuff for later use or resynthesis ,im limiting possibilities as a purpose ,and then use the skills to make it unique . i love this challenge . i would stick to the 8track too :)
edit : does this 8track has a format comperssion ? it stores loops in a format right ?


Good to get off the screen indeed. The physicality of analogue is hard to beat.

However the 21stC has some ~really ~ nice ways of interfacing with ye olde oscillators too!

Yes, blackyogurt,
Good to get off the screen indeed. The physicality of analogue is hard to beat.
However the 21stC has some  ~really ~ nice ways of interfacing with ye olde oscillators too!


Simon share the knowledge , ive got one or two osc's here ,how to make them alive again ? :)

Maybe you have a web cam or a camera, wave your arms, move around >Max> Oscillator

plenty of knob laden assignable midi controllers around

There are loads of cheap sensors for touch, movement and so on

Add an Arduino or other micro controller, bit of software fernagling & Bob could be your 3D printed aunt.

Ok KrisW,
Maybe you have a web cam or a camera, wave your arms, move around  >Max> Oscillator
er, want 3D,  use a Kinect for the same.

plenty of knob laden assignable midi controllers around 

want to make your own?
There are loads of cheap sensors for touch, movement and so on
Add an Arduino or other micro controller, bit of software fernagling & Bob could be your 3D printed aunt.

I've always been interested in using old oscillators. Is this what you are referencing, Simon?

Kris: I'm not 100% what you mean. It's my novice qualities, though. I'm just bouncing out to the 8 track, and have a looped cassette, like the ones that were used for answering machines. It's just good for sketching ideas, if you know what I mean? It can be done in the box, and eventually gets transported to my DAW, but i'd like some distance from the computer during the process.

hehe thanks , this require a lot of new knowledge and physical ability to make it work :D also that touch screens require some sort of retain for me personally :D

ah its a cassette , sure thats great ,i know what you mean with sketching (are you struggling with fluttering of the tape there too ? ).

And with limitations im saying that its good to force limitations , you can choose whatever limit is good for you :) im limiting myself of not using generators on the fly , im resynthesising or manipulating samples ,this is the way ive choosen ,i love quality degradation ,loved how akai samplers have to deal with this issue and what results came out .

@ Simon .
hehe thanks , this require a lot of new knowledge and physical ability to make it work :D also that touch screens require some sort of retain for me personally :D

@ blackyougurt .
ah its a cassette , sure thats great ,i know what you mean with sketching (are you struggling with fluttering of the tape there too ? ).
And with limitations im saying that its good to force limitations , you can choose whatever limit is good for you :) im limiting myself of not using generators on the fly , im resynthesising or manipulating samples ,this is the way ive choosen ,i love quality degradation ,loved how akai samplers have to deal with this issue and what results came out .


Minimalism