wallace winfrey

[Update 04/26/2008] YOU MAY NOW POST COMPRESSED MAX 5 PATCHES INLINE.

OK, so here is the deal: Max 5 patches are much, much larger than Max 4 

patches so if you want to post a patch, you must go to the forum and 

attach it to your message. You cannot post it inline! You MUST attach 

it! I will also strongly recommend that mailing list users post their 

patches this way, as there is a tendency for mail programs to post 

We are going to be very strict about enforcing this policy in the 

future, and you all have my apologies that this policy was not presented 

to you in advance (this goes for you too, Emmanuel! ;-)

For the time being, we will do our best to take Max 5 patches posted 

inline and turn them into attachments on the forum, however, in the 

This is an especially important rule for the mailing list users to keep 

in mind. Remember that every post is a contribution to the incredible 

resource that is the forum archive, and when you senselessly quote the 

entire message containing a very large Max 5 patch, you make for endless 

scrolling for people reading the conversation later on and the archive 

So please, please, post your .maxpat files as attachments in the forum.

At this point, consider this to be a "strong suggestion". In the future, 

it will be a rule, and we will consider it a violation of the rules to 

post patches inline. We're not implementing this policy to be dicks. 

We're doing it to make it easier for everyone to use the forum archive.

OK, so here is the deal: Max 5 patches are much, much larger than Max 4 
patches so if you want to post a patch, you must go to the forum and 
attach it to your message. You cannot post it inline! You MUST attach 
it! I will also strongly recommend that mailing list users post their 
patches this way, as there is a tendency for mail programs to post 
textual data inline anyway.

We are going to be very strict about enforcing this policy in the 
future, and you all have my apologies that this policy was not presented 
to you in advance (this goes for you too, Emmanuel! ;-)

For the time being, we will do our best to take Max 5 patches posted 
inline and turn them into attachments on the forum, however, in the 
future, they will simply be stripped.

This is an especially important rule for the mailing list users to keep 
in mind. Remember that every post is a contribution to the incredible 
resource that is the forum archive, and when you senselessly quote the 
entire message containing a very large Max 5 patch, you make for endless 
scrolling for people reading the conversation later on and the archive 
much less incredible.

At this point, consider this to be a "strong suggestion". In the future, 
it will be a rule, and we will consider it a violation of the rules to 
post patches inline. We're not implementing this policy to be dicks. 
We're doing it to make it easier for everyone to use the forum archive.

recommendations-for-posting-max-5-patches-hint-copy-compressed

this is kind of going to make the list-as-mailing-list useless, kind 

of? if we can't use attachments when we're simply subscribed to the 

this is kind of going to make the list-as-mailing-list useless, kind  
of?  if we can't use attachments when we're simply subscribed to the  
list? :/


> this is kind of going to make the list-as-mailing-list useless, kind 

> of? if we can't use attachments when we're simply subscribed to the 

Attachments posted from the forum go out to the list. Attachments posted 

from the list do not make it into the forum. It's a suggestion for now 

anyway. Since the vast majority of the posts to this list do not include 

attachments anyway, it appears from my vantage point like only a minor 

> this is kind of going to make the list-as-mailing-list useless, kind 
> of?  if we can't use attachments when we're simply subscribed to the 
> list? :/

Attachments posted from the forum go out to the list. Attachments posted 
from the list do not make it into the forum. It's a suggestion for now 
anyway. Since the vast majority of the posts to this list do not include 
attachments anyway, it appears from my vantage point like only a minor 
inconvenience.

Quote: joshua goldberg wrote on Wed, 23 April 2008 13:36

----------------------------------------------------

So the problem is Max 5 patches are much larger. But they also have a lot of redundancy in them. I wonder if it's possible to compromise: with a text-based compressor/decompressor we could post our patches inline as a much shorter (although cryptic) chunk of text. I believe this is often done on usenet? I bet someone could whip this up pretty easily but without a standard streamlined solution it probably won't fly. Probably a dumb idea but just thought I'd throw it out there.

Another thought is to make the forum smarter, and maybe hide inline patches by default until you click a "show patch" button. Just need a little javascript and maybe enable some special tags in the forum (like [code] or whatever). Wouldn't that solve the problem?

I'm sure there are much more important things to work on right now though. I'll use attachments.

PS - Wallace, did you want this post to be sticky at the top of the forum?

Quote: joshua goldberg wrote on Wed, 23 April 2008 13:36
----------------------------------------------------
> uuh.
>
> this is kind of going to make the list-as-mailing-list useless, kind  
> of?  if we can't use attachments when we're simply subscribed to the  
> list? :/
>

So the problem is Max 5 patches are much larger. But they also have a lot of redundancy in them. I wonder if it's possible to compromise: with a text-based compressor/decompressor we could post our patches inline as a much shorter (although cryptic) chunk of text. I believe this is often done on usenet? I bet someone could whip this up pretty easily but without a standard streamlined solution it probably won't fly. Probably a dumb idea but just thought I'd throw it out there. 

Another thought is to make the forum smarter, and maybe hide inline patches by default until you click a "show patch" button. Just need a little javascript and maybe enable some special tags in the forum (like [code] or whatever). Wouldn't that solve the problem? 

PS - Wallace, did you want this post to be sticky at the top of the forum?


this is going to make contributing to this "incredible" resource MUCH 

personally i don't see myself opening my browser and click my way 

through the forum to get to the right thread only to post a patch.

i'll attach it to an email, yes. but that's it.

this is going to make contributing to this "incredible" resource MUCH  
less attractive for mailing list users.

personally i don't see myself opening my browser and click my way  
through the forum to get to the right thread only to post a patch.

I used to be just like you... and then I started reading the forum as an RSS feed in NetNewsWire. It's like being on the mailing list (I just get a list of incoming posts with full text), but if I want to respond to something, I just hit enter, and it opens the corresponding forum thread in the built-in browser, open to the post I was reading, where I can start writing a reply right away. I'm never going back to the email version. Ne-vah.

Agreed. I will use the forum as a reference, but doubt I will find 

myself answering questions with as much frequency.

FWIW, removing whitespace and line breaks from the json makes it a bit 

On Apr 23, 2008, at 2:57 PM, jasch wrote:

> this is going to make contributing to this "incredible" resource 

> MUCH less attractive for mailing list users.

> personally i don't see myself opening my browser and click my way 

> through the forum to get to the right thread only to post a patch.

> i'll attach it to an email, yes. but that's it.

Agreed. I will use the forum as a reference, but doubt I will find  
myself answering questions with as much frequency.

FWIW, removing whitespace and line breaks from the json makes it a bit  
more manageable. But not much.

On Apr 23, 2008, at 2:57 PM, jasch   wrote:

> this is going to make contributing to this "incredible" resource  
> MUCH less attractive for mailing list users.
>
> personally i don't see myself opening my browser and click my way  
> through the forum to get to the right thread only to post a patch.
>
> i'll attach it to an email, yes. but that's it.
>
> my 0.02 CHF
>
> /*j

San Francisco, CA
Work: 857-544-3967
Email: bthrew (at) gmail (dot) com
Web: www.barrythrew.com


I'm with Jeremy on this one. Personally, I prefer Vienna over NetNewsWire, but YMMV. I have to admit I was really reluctant to make the switch, but I got really tired of having my attachments not work.

I'm with Jeremy on this one.  Personally, I prefer Vienna over NetNewsWire, but YMMV.  I have to admit I was really reluctant to make the switch, but I got really tired of having my attachments not work.

So this basically means we are forced to use the forum. no thanks.

so why not just close the damn mailing list? I mean since it doesnt 

so why not just close the damn mailing list? I mean since it doesnt  
translate attachments ANYWAY....


where do i find the rss feed address to plug into a reader?

This sentence is where I voice my last word of dissent on this matter. 

On Apr 23, 2008, at 4:15 PM, Andrew Benson wrote:

> I'm with Jeremy on this one. Personally, I prefer Vienna over 

> NetNewsWire, but YMMV. I have to admit I was really reluctant to 

> make the switch, but I got really tired of having my attachments not 

This sentence is where I voice my last word of dissent on this matter.  
Sigh.

>
> I'm with Jeremy on this one.  Personally, I prefer Vienna over  
> NetNewsWire, but YMMV.  I have to admit I was really reluctant to  
> make the switch, but I got really tired of having my attachments not  
> work.
>
>
>
> --
> Andrew B.
> --
> Cycling '74 Support

Maybe someone "in the know" could post some instructions on how to 

download/configure some of the more popular RSS readers for all the 

old email dinosaurs like myself. Anyone tried with Leopard Mail? I 

haven't used any of the RSS features or have any idea how they compare 

to these others, but I'd rather not have another program running 

besides my email client (Mail.app) and preferred web browser 

On Apr 23, 2008, at 4:15 PM, Andrew Benson wrote:
>
> I'm with Jeremy on this one.  Personally, I prefer Vienna over  
> NetNewsWire, but YMMV.  I have to admit I was really reluctant to  
> make the switch, but I got really tired of having my attachments not  
> work.

Maybe someone "in the know" could post some instructions on how to  
download/configure some of the more popular RSS readers for all the  
old email dinosaurs like myself. Anyone tried with Leopard Mail? I  
haven't used any of the RSS features or have any idea how they compare  
to these others, but I'd rather not have another program running  
besides my email client (Mail.app) and preferred web browser  
(Safari.app).

So, how exactly do I subscribe to this mythical RSS feed?

There is no link in the browser or anywhere on the forum.

Or else I just can't find it, and I consider myself pretty good at teh 

On Apr 23, 2008, at 4:03 PM, Jeremy Bernstein wrote:

> I used to be just like you... and then I started reading the forum 

> as an RSS feed in NetNewsWire. It's like being on the mailing list 

> (I just get a list of incoming posts with full text), but if I want 

> to respond to something, I just hit enter, and it opens the 

> corresponding forum thread in the built-in browser, open to the post 

> I was reading, where I can start writing a reply right away. I'm 

> never going back to the email version. Ne-vah.

Or else I just can't find it, and I consider myself pretty good at teh  
interwebs.

>
> I used to be just like you... and then I started reading the forum  
> as an RSS feed in NetNewsWire. It's like being on the mailing list  
> (I just get a list of incoming posts with full text), but if I want  
> to respond to something, I just hit enter, and it opens the  
> corresponding forum thread in the built-in browser, open to the post  
> I was reading, where I can start writing a reply right away. I'm  
> never going back to the email version. Ne-vah.
>
> jb

I use NetNewsWire on Mac and FeedDemon on PC, both FREE

Here's a new atom feed Wally made for the forum, you just subscribe to it in your reader of choice and you can see all the forum posts, there's a link at the bottom of the feed page which takes you to the reply form.

https://cycling74.com/forums/atom-test.php?frm=7&mode=m&l=1&n=200&basic=1

Other RSS feeds for all of the content on our site can be got here

I use NetNewsWire on Mac and FeedDemon on PC, both FREE
from 

Copy the URL of the feed you are interested in and paste it into the Subscribe field of your favorite RSS reader.

If you don't want to install more apps on your computer, there's a bunch of online RSS feed aggregator that you use in your browser . No more effort than browsing to a news site.

If you use gmail, you already have one setup. Check out the Reader link at the top of your screen (might be hidden under "more").

Could you give some info on how to do this? I downloaded NetNews Wire 

and created a new subscription to the URL

t=thread&frm_id=7&rid=0&S=bca63318032270cd596548d23e1ce299> but 

nothing happens in NetNewsWire other than creating a new entry in the 

On Apr 23, 2008, at 5:03 PM, Jeremy Bernstein wrote:

> corresponding forum thread in the built-in browser, open to the 

> post I was reading, where I can start writing a reply right away. 

> I'm never going back to the email version. Ne-vah.

Could you give some info on how to do this? I downloaded NetNews Wire  
and created a new subscription to the URL
forums/index.php? 
t=thread&frm_id=7&rid=0&S=bca63318032270cd596548d23e1ce299> but  
nothing happens in NetNewsWire other than creating a new entry in the  
list on the left.

>
> I used to be just like you... and then I started reading the forum  
> as an RSS feed in NetNewsWire. It's like being on the mailing list  
> (I just get a list of incoming posts with full text), but if I want  
> to respond to something, I just hit enter, and it opens the  
> corresponding forum thread in the built-in browser, open to the  
> post I was reading, where I can start writing a reply right away.  
> I'm never going back to the email version. Ne-vah.
>
> jb

----
Steven M. Miller
Professor, Contemporary Music Program
College of Santa Fe

Home 
SFIFEM 
Atrium Sound Space 
OVOS 
CMP 


Sometimes when sharing patches via IRC, iChat etc, I use Nopaste -

It would be cool if something like that was built into the forum so people could still easily post and link to bits of code, while the code would exist outside of the conversation.

I know this isnt much help for the e-mail list people, but I still find nopaste easier to deal with than attachments.

Maybe even a seperate forum just for code? Automatically parse the code out of people's e-mails to the 'code forum' ?

I'm a forum user and I can live with attachments, but those are just some ideas.

Sometimes when sharing patches via IRC, iChat etc, I use Nopaste -
http://rafb.net/paste/
(with language set to plain text)
It would be cool if something like that was built into the forum so people could still easily post and link to bits of code, while the code would exist outside of the conversation. 

I know this isnt much help for the e-mail list people, but I still find nopaste easier to deal with than attachments. 

Maybe even a seperate forum just for code? Automatically parse the code out of people's e-mails to the 'code forum' ? 

I'm a forum user and I can live with attachments, but those are just some ideas.


On Apr 23, 2008, at 8:58 PM, Chris Muir wrote:

> I hope there's still time for the Max mailing list. It sort of 

> feels like it's the Road Runner, having run off the edge of a 

Oh me too! My mailboxes (many of whom now seem to date back to the 

early 90's) function as my brain database. I really dislike 

'forums', but I'm an old guy. I don't use AIM either.

I do read a lot of this list on my iPhone while traveling now, 

though, so I hope the mail list won't die. edge e-mail seems a bit 

> I hope there's still time for the Max mailing list. It sort of  
> feels like it's the Road Runner, having run off the edge of a  
> cliff, but not having noticed yet.

Oh me too!  My mailboxes (many of whom now seem to date back to the  
early 90's) function as my brain database.  I really dislike  
'forums', but I'm an old guy.  I don't use AIM either.

I do read a lot of this list on my iPhone while traveling now,  
though, so I hope the mail list won't die.  edge e-mail seems a bit  
more efficient than the browser thing.

It seems to work pretty well with Leopard Mail to me...pretty straight 

It would be nice if all the atom links added as their respective 

catagories instead of all coming up as "Cycling74 Forums" though.

It seems to work pretty well with Leopard Mail to me...pretty straight  
forward.

It would be nice if all the atom links added as their respective  
catagories instead of all coming up as "Cycling74 Forums" though.

Should I just take the ".maxpat" file and post that, or is there going to be Mac/PC compatibility issues? Would it be better to zip up the file? What is the preferred format/compressor/etc. for forum use? I'm hoping the answer is as simple as posting the .maxpat file.

So, if I want to post something...
Should I just take the ".maxpat" file and post that, or is there going to be Mac/PC compatibility issues?  Would it be better to zip up the file?  What is the preferred format/compressor/etc. for forum use?  I'm hoping the answer is as simple as posting the .maxpat file.


I recently switched email clients and now use Thunderbird. One reason 

compelling the switch was its handling of RSS feeds. Each subscription 

has it's own inbox with the same search and sort capabilities as any 

mail account. I've used it to subscribe to several blogs, and like the 

fact that I can do that while also checking my mail. I just set up the 

forum's feed to try that out. So far it's almost exactly like working 

I recently switched email clients and now use Thunderbird. One reason 
compelling the switch was its handling of RSS feeds. Each subscription 
has it's own inbox with the same search and sort capabilities as any 
mail account. I've used it to subscribe to several blogs, and like the 
fact that I can do that while also checking my mail. I just set up the 
forum's feed to try that out. So far it's almost exactly like working 
with the mailing list...

Maybe Cycling74 could set up a service similar to:

servers, integrated into the searchable database.

I don't know how hard it would be to do that (as you'd want each entry

linked to the post that spawned it...or you could just make sure the

Maybe Cycling74 could set up a service similar to:
http://rafb.net/paste/ or http://www.shorttext.com/ but on c74
servers, integrated into the searchable database.
I don't know how hard it would be to do that (as you'd want each entry
linked to the post that spawned it...or you could just make sure the
links stay permanent).

the ##java channel (http://javachannel.net/wiki/pmwiki.php) uses this
pastebin: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/


I'd like to cast another vote for keeping the list alive. I much

prefer an integrated aggregating+posting environment (email ;) to

clogging up my RSS feed with forum posts.

I'd like to cast another vote for keeping the list alive. I much
prefer an integrated aggregating+posting environment (email ;) to
clogging up my RSS feed with forum posts.

Here's another thing - many people post little snippets of code to 

illustrate a particular point or a basic concept to someone (often 

newbies, but also more experienced maxers). It might be something as 

simple as how to properly use $1 $2 $3 in a message box (to use a 

recent eg). Often, a patcherette (to coin a phrase) is the only simple 

way to illustrate a problem and or its solution. But as jasch says, I 

can't see anyone bothering to go looking for a particular thread in 

the forum in order to post a small example.

Here's another thing - many people post little snippets of code  to  
illustrate a particular point or a basic concept to someone (often  
newbies, but also more experienced maxers).  It might be something as  
simple as how to properly use $1 $2 $3 in a message box (to use a  
recent eg). Often, a patcherette (to coin a phrase) is the only simple  
way to illustrate a problem and or its solution. But as jasch says,  I  
can't see anyone bothering to go looking for a particular thread in  
the forum in order to post a small example.

You mean we have to learn Max 5 AND this new-fangled RSS thingy too!?

Like all things new, I'm prepared to believe it will be worth it in the end, but I'm with the dinosaurs on this one.

If there's an obstacle to posting patches from the comfort of your own mailbox, I can see the decline in the number making it through from the old guard - and let's face it, these are usually the guys with the most to contribute.

I also like the idea of separate 5 and 4 forums/lists; 127 mails to read first thing in the morning (115 yesterday) + Max 5 + NetNewsWire to learn - I hope my employers don't expect me to do any work in the next few months!

You mean we have to learn Max 5 AND this new-fangled RSS thingy too!?
 Like all things new, I'm prepared to believe it will be worth it in the end, but I'm with the dinosaurs on this one.
 If there's an obstacle to posting patches from the comfort of your own mailbox, I can see the decline in the number making it through from the old guard - and let's face it, these are usually the guys with the most to contribute.

 I also like the idea of separate 5 and 4 forums/lists; 127 mails to read first thing in the morning (115 yesterday) + Max 5 + NetNewsWire to learn - I hope my employers don't expect me to do any work in the next few months!
cheers
Roger


i was near to headache figuring out how with that netnewswire....

I've been on a number of developer forums where one pushes a button to enter a code snippet, which then gets displayed as an openable icon or something in the forum post. I'm not saying that this is what we need, but it might provide a decent halfway point between and attachment and an external code hoster. It's, in any case, better than posting ginormous JSON plaintext in the forum/list.

before you continue to search for alternatives somewhere, we have now a webbrowser right inside Max5. Maybe the developers find it worth to think about using it for some community tasks?

... but to look for alternatives myself, here is the old fashioned way:

I do not know the software which is used here but however, it should be possible to add a link in the "new post" and in the "reply form" which opens a separate window, lets you paste your Max code in and stores it (named with the number of the post) as a .txt file somewhere on the server and the number itself in a database table. Can (or should) be another database than the forum stuff, only for these code snippets.

Vice versa, the detail page of a post looks if there is a database entry with the particular number and, if yes, it displays a link to the file with the code (if there is an entry, there must be a file). You would see the code in the browser and can copy it from there.

Maintenance is easy, a short additional code would delete the associated record and the file with the same name if a post gets deleted. I think the admins do not move posts from one forum to the other, so we would end up with only 3 or 4 slightly modified forum scripts. With a tiny documentation and proper comments they can survive an upgrade quite easily.

If the forum software doesn't have a better solution, I think this is a way to get this functionality with as less impact on the forum software as possible.

On Apr 23, 2008, at 7:41 PM, barry threw wrote:

> It seems to work pretty well with Leopard Mail to me...pretty 

Yeah, seems nice so far. Still subbed with email for my own archive's 

sake, but these RSS feeds work well for me in Leopard Mail, and much 

snappier w/r/t mailing list delays. I just dragged the following links 

(Thanks, Andrew) to the mailbox column, and renamed them.

Recommendations for posting Max 5 Patches (hint: Copy Compressed!)