HELP !!! VERY STUCK ON UNI ASSESMENT

zach doe's icon

How do I make a device that calculates an eighth of a beat based on the global tempo, and then have another device apply a way of adjusting that value with a live dial, and finally implement it into a device that delays an incoming audio signal by the value calculated from the tempo and adjusted via the live dial!

TFL's icon

We won't do that for you, but we can help you to go through. Where are you stuck at? What do you have so far?

You are talking about a device, do you have to do a Max for Live device? Or a regular Max patch?

Roman Thilenius's icon

nowadays questions end with an exclamation mark... scary shit.

ward de jager's icon

If you know what BPM actually stands for, then your halfway there .

Seriously , if you're already stuck with such a simple assignment and you expect others to solve it for you , the future does not seem bright .

!

Source Audio's icon

If one needs 3 devices to shift audio a bit

then that university course that states it so is a bullshit in first place

Jan M's icon

@Zach: these assignments work a bit like textual math assignments in middle school. First step is to try to translate the task description into single steps using your own language. This way we one can ask more directed questions. Equally important in this step is to get to know which parts of the assignment you understand and which ones not yet.

If you get strong reactions here it’s usually because others feel someone is asking “bring me to Paris, please” instead of “how do I get to the train station”

zach doe's icon

My apologies if this came across as asking people to do this for me — this is not what I want at all. Merely a direction on where to start researching .

Context - My uni does not teach Max for Live/dsp in any way, shape, or form — nor Ableton. They primarily try to get people to use/teach Pro Tools.

I have been producing on Ableton Live since Live 9 and use Max for Live devices on a regular basis.

For my FMP assessment, I tasked myself with making a delay device of sorts, having zero knowledge of the node-based programming language.

I prototyped an idea in Ableton using stock devices and groups, and stupidly thought that if I can do that here, it shouldn't be too hard to make in Max for Live, right?

I was very wrong. I know what I want to do, but I have no idea where to look for the information on how to do it.

zach doe's icon

I should have properly elaborated this out the gate as to avoid any misconceptions

Source Audio's icon

Max is not node-based programming language in first place.

but back to your thing.

all you need is a bit of delay for audio,

being live input or playback.

max has objects that directly translate tempo to beat in ms, samples,

ticks , whatever.

read help file of translate object.

(or use delay~ using note values instead of samples or ms)

when you get that value, you proceed by manipulating it

by that dial you mention.

by the way why ?

if you use 8th note, why do you need to modifiy it then ?

you could ignore it and use straight 231 ms for example.

makes no sense to me.

at the end it is a matter of inserting delay using final value,

for example tapin/tapout or delay~

here one example with +- 10 % of calculated delay time

samples or ms ...

Max Patch
Copy patch and select New From Clipboard in Max.

in live you use plugin/out instead of adc/dac

zach doe's icon

Thank you ill be breaking down this example to understand what it does, and the 1/8th bar delay is going to be before a 1 delay of a parallel delay to essential create a swing delay ,if that makes sense

Source Audio's icon

you want 2 delays ?

or only 1 delay - with "swing" ?

there is no 1/8th of a bar.

note values are not related to bar or time signature.

if you use live since version 9,

one would expect that you are familiar with

at least very basic stuff.

zach doe's icon

Ablation live , not the creation of max for live plugins, i literally stared learning 3 weeks ago for this assessments , due to 3 other assessments iv needed top get done before . Hence, me asking for help

in short, I'm a full on max for live noob atm

zach doe's icon


this is what im trying to describe by the way

zach doe's icon

This is the concept, I'm trying to create this in max for live, and implement a signal delay thing that is synced to the global tempo of the project for one of the delays to essentially create swing for every even tap using 2 delays in parallel

zach doe's icon

aaand then be able to adjusts that amount using a live dial to adjust between 0 and what ever the 16th of a beat is to adjust the swing similar to this effect https://www.maxforlive.com/library/device/8122/asym-liveswing but not midi

(also the second wave table audio channel is a bounce of the one above to visuals it )

zach doe's icon

Anyway , overall, I'm asking what objects I'd need to look into and research in order to begin the creation of a device such as this

Source Audio's icon

I would help you, no problem,

but please talk simple.

like:

I need 2 parallel delays

1st one is this beat (for exampe 1/8th)

2nd one is that beat - adjustable from - to.

pronounced in whatever values.

Not that long poems.

in fact in example I posted you have most you need to make it,

it is only a matter to define delay times.

👽'tW∆s ∆lienz👽's icon

Ablation live

Ablations for everyone! Huzzah!

This Zach DOE, no doubt a relative of John!

Just kidding... sorry... adding to what Source Audio wrote, the patch they posted has everything you need, and additionally, according to your graphic above, it appears you want an "Echo" effect (delay with feedback), so here's SourceAudio's patch but with feedback and DryWet mix added in... and if this is for a 'Uni Assessment', the rest should be something you can figure out looking at helpfiles for all the objects included here and going through the math in your own way and time:

Max Patch
Copy patch and select New From Clipboard in Max.

Source Audio's icon

just a little correction

tapout needs ms not samples ...

👽'tW∆s ∆lienz👽's icon

ah good point, i all-too-quickly connected the timing-calculations for delay~ into tapout~, now they definitely have everything they need: i've corrected my version of SourceAudio's patch above to be all milliseconds.

i suppose we could be extra generous with this final little equation that translates quarter-notes at BPM to milliseconds-per-beat:

60000 milliseconds-per-minute ÷ X beats-per-minute = Y milliseconds-per-beat

or one can use the [!/ ] object

so the 60000. can remain a constant like so:

"BPM" -> [!/ 60000.]

None of this is needed if using the 'translate' object, but knowing how it works can help one research objects that work with timing, more quickly/fluidly.

zach doe's icon

"Ablation live" OMG that typo ;_;

sorry for taking so long to respond , been finishing a "music of an experimental nature" assessment on genitive euro rack

thank you , both of you , really appreciate the help, despite my vague explanation of what the heck I was trying to accomplish 🙏, i will be continuing to use the help nodes with in max and eventually figure out a layout as well.

👽'tW∆s ∆lienz👽's icon

ha, glad you appreciated the humor(it was a fun typo to read, as some could argue that electronic-music production is undergoing 'ablations' when sculpted within the constraints of Ableton's DAW design) ;D

speaking of help nodes, it's not as obvious to find anymore but here are the old-school 'MSP tutorials' that can help with everything audio:

best of luck on all your uni assessments 🤘

Wil's icon

Jeez. This whole time I was reading Abomination Live.

Roman Thilenius's icon

abdomination?

supressing a comment about "experimental music",

-110

Wil's icon

Last one was premier of Rite of Spring.

Oh how we long to do better (or worse)

zach doe's icon

THANK YOU EVERYONE , iv got 2 versions done and made , thank you for your help eveyone