Well, I understand that it's so cool when one's favourite externals are updated quickly, features are added, bugs are fixed... Right? However, many of these tools are developed by people who do this in their free times, as a contribution to the community. In my case, with The sadam Library, I've spent hundreds (if not thousands) of hours since the first release to expand it with new externals and to port them to platforms that I don't even use (eg. Windows, PowerPC). On the other hand, although the library has been downloaded approx. 1000 times so far, only two of my users found it important to send a donation until now (which I really appreciated, BTW - thank you again, Terry and Timothée). I'm sure that there are tools (eg. the CNMAT objects) which are maintained by institutions who can afford the `luxury' of spending some of their developer resources on free projects to gain some reputation. However, for independent developers, this is not always the case. So, perhaps you should really contact those developers who did a great job for you and offer them some donation if you really need a specific external for your favourite platform; otherwise, I guess you should be a little patient and wait until we find our free times to do the job. In my case, since I'm working with Max 5, it will take some time until I update my objects for Max 6, and specially, for Max 64bit...
Just saying, I didn't complain about this here. Just wanted to know if, especially, I could contribute myself.
Anyway, taking our time is important.
But if I cannot support myself my stuff, I often give part of sources I order people can are their stuff with them.
Of course I cannot myself do that for every, too.
Is that the Max community becomes consumerist more and more ?
Good point, I also feel the same from time to time, although I also feel that I am also becoming more consumerist with time, unfortunately. Since the depression started and cultural budgets were severely cut in most places of the world, I think that this kind of more money-oriented behaviour is a somewhat natural (although very unfortunate) reaction. :-(
To Julien Bayle: in my particular case, the codebase of The sadam Library overlaps unfortunately in a great way with codes of my paid projects that help funding my studies. Although I am usually very open to share my code with other developers in private (with people who would use it to learn something and not to do some copy-paste coding), I am not in the position of simply releasing my code for the public. If people contracting me for nasty Max-externals would have copy-paste access to my codebase, then why would any of them pay me?
I'm also fully comfortable with this. As a contributor to the monome forums (well i've made ONE whole app, but still, i was learning max and it took 3 weeks of tutorials and trial and error) I also know what it's like to pour your heart into something, anything, be it a patch, external, piece of music, or a kick drum made from scratch, and choose to give it away.
I gave my monome patch away because I wanted to support the community. I'm not able to do that with max externals because, frankly, I don't allow myself the time to code when i have to be making tracks (dance music, occasional tv stuff). I can wait for my beloved externals, and in the meantime, Live 9 runs a hell of a lot better when it can use all my RAM!
so us blue-collar patchers, we want those externals, but take your time, coders, we know you have lives, and that's fine for us.
this software natively provides practically everything i need, (though i LOVE LOVE LOVE max toolbox) and if anyone feels limited without some external, remember that limiting one's self is often the best way to get creative.
On behalf of $ADAM - i love your externals, I didn't pay for them, i have a good reason, but for the record I understand where you're coming from. I poured my heart and soul into an EP of music that i gave away for donations on bandcamp (when i could have easily sent it to some decent labels without a doubt) hundreds of downloads - I got $10. shit happens, but when i get back from my next bout of gigs, i'll donate, buddy :)
@Misk and all others, maybe my comment sounded too `monetaristic'. ;-) I really didn't mean it, I'm actually very happy to have users who can benefit of these tools. In fact, I've never really expected to receive much donations for this project - otherwise, I would have kept if for myself. Since these externals were (and are) made, on the first place, for my own projects to facilitate my patched compositions, I am going to go on with the development even if I don't get any donation for it. And that's how it is supposed to work in the first place. ;-)
I just hear and read more and more people complaining on different forums and during small-talk about `what should be added to this or that free toolset', mostly from people who never did themselves anything for free (I'm not mainly talking about the Max forum at this point), and I just felt that I have to add the point of view of developers to this thread. But I admit, perhaps I sounded too harsh here.
Siska and Nicolas wrote:
" Is that the Max community becomes consumerist more and more ?
Good point, I also feel the same from time to time, although I also feel that I am also becoming more consumerist with time, unfortunately. Since the depression started and cultural budgets were severely cut in most places of the world, I think that this kind of more money-oriented behaviour is a somewhat natural (although very unfortunate) reaction. :-("
+1 what Siska and Nicolas said... well sort of... i think there's also many excuses people make for laziness, whether in an economic recession or not(hold the tomatoes, hecklers! i speak from personal experience! :D ...i avoid using 3rd party externals for the exact reason of having to wait for updates, and don't feel i have the right to pester the devs to hurry up... but the one, single, 3rd party set of externals i do use is EricLyon's FFTease, because i, myself, am too lazy so far to figure out how to code FFT processing as well as he does... there's really no other excuse, life is short but not that short, we could all learn if we were patient and organized enough to set aside time and pursue it over the course of years... and taking years is definitely worth it, too... but most folks think of this and act on their impatience as i do too in this case).
if you do use 3rd party externals, while a thread like this is perfectly wise(many devs check on these forums), the best thing to do when you need updates is to contact the actual dev of the 3rd party external.
and aside from sites like this, which are not managed by Cycling74:
finding a nicely compiled list of all 3rdparty externals with info. about versioning is not something that Cycling74 or its web-site and forums should be responsible for(this is why they are called '3rd Party'... although Cycling74 does enough here already, too, by offering a space to upload projects/tools).
[this message not directed at anyone in particular. Julien and many of the others here have done plenty for their respective new-media/max-using communities... and none, here, of course, are lazy as far as i'd know... but just offering suggestions as to a different way of perceiving how to pursue what you need. after all, different perspectives are what a resident-asswipe such as myself specializes in >;D]
Well, actually I was exaggerating a little bit... most of it was just compiler settings and textual search-and-replace. I guess for most external objects the transition should be quite seamless. Our problem with bach is that we have custom data types with a not-so-trivial lifecycle scenario, rational numbers (which now require some 128-bit math, so go write your own 128-bit int class since you can't find anything really fit for your needs around), huge object structures with hundreds of fields to maintain and an overall 150000+ lines of code. And we're just two guys with no real programmer in the team ;)
Anyway, besides pondering some crucial decisions, I'd say the whole thing took us one week of work, plus a lot of testing which is far from being over. The rest of the awful lot of work is adding some spicy new things to the next release, and above all making all the Max 6-style documentation from scratch - that's horrible!
Andrea Agostini wrote:
"plus a lot of testing which is far from being over"
that's another good thing to think about not mentioned so far in this thread. updating isn't as simple as just doing it and throwing it out into the wild. good devs, regardless of a beta-testing stage, will test thoroughly themselves for awhile(alpha-testing).
Something to think about next time we all decide to pass on the donation link: our puny little usage and beta-testing is no work at all compared to what actually gets done by the devs first.