Getting moog filter sounds into Max
DaBigBoy01
9月 10 2024 | 1:17 午前
Hey folks,
I'm a new Max user coming from the Cubase/Reaktor world. I'm starting to grasp the basics a little bit with building in Max For Live - I'm still very new with it. I was finally able to get a simple 3 oscillator mono synth going for my own projects.
In Reaktor there's several different kinds of Filters that are very well done - like the ladder filter and pro-52 filter. I have noticed in BEAP these kinds of filters are in there but I'm not really interested in a BEAP synthesizer.
My question - Is there a good Moog/Ladder filter out there for core MAX MSP? I don't have the brains to program it myself. I've tried out the default lores and svf filters and they don't sound quite like the way I expected.
I have also sorted through the forums history and it does not appear to be very much information, and the ladder filters posted in the past seems to have been removed.
Any advice is appreciated.
Thanks!
👽'tW∆s ∆lienz👽
9月 10 2024 | 5:38 午後
from the Max menubar, see 'Help -> Examples -> gen -> gen~.moogladder':
DaBigBoy01
9月 10 2024 | 9:09 午後
Thanks a lot! Overlooked that menu. Looks like a lot of examples. I didn't think I had gen available to use with my license.
DaBigBoy01
9月 11 2024 | 1:11 午後
How come when I try to copy and past the moogsnake patcher into my synth directly it causes my synth to stop producing sound? I did the flow exactly as how the example patch was done but for some reason sound doesn't flow through. There must be something I'm missing.
DaBigBoy01
9月 11 2024 | 2:10 午後
I just realized that I had incorrect cord paths to the moogsnake. Fixing it results in a problem that I had before - The sound is just way to low. Even with the frequency at 10000hz. If I remove the moogsnake, the sound returns back to normal.
DaBigBoy01
9月 11 2024 | 2:12 午後
Attached is a picture of my synth. It also appears as though it's not actually working.
👽'tW∆s ∆lienz👽
9月 11 2024 | 2:13 午後
that is strange. i'm not running into that. can you post your patch or a pic?
or... i might be misunderstanding... if you only pasted the [p moogsnake] part, and connected it up only with signal going into left-most inlet, then the other inlets need signal, too (particularly the middle inlet which is center-frequency... this is a lopass-style filter, and without anything connected, it defaults to 0. Hz)...
i put a bit of a clearer commented set of instructions here:
hope it helps, post back here if not(if still not working, maybe also post your patch -> to post patches most easily, you can select-all in your patch while it's in patching mode(not presentation mode), and then use 'Copy-Compressed' from the Max menubar under 'Edit' menu... and then simply paste that here, it will show up condensed like the one i just posted :)
👽'tW∆s ∆lienz👽
9月 11 2024 | 2:20 午後
i saw your pic only after i posted the last post, you could post the patch, but another thing i'd recommend is to set everything to a default value that you know will make some sound(like the adsr knobs, and the starting frequency of your oscillator(it is at 0Hz, this is same as silence) same with the center-frequency of moogsnake, try something higher than 8Hz, more like 100Hz or larger...)
DaBigBoy01
9月 11 2024 | 2:25 午後
DaBigBoy01
9月 11 2024 | 2:25 午後
And I did try the code you had attached. No luck either. I couldn't even get sound out of it.
I can run the gen example patch no problem. Works great. But for whatever reason it doesn't jive with my synth.
The live gain function shows green like sound is coming out but no sound in Ableton.
DaBigBoy01
9月 11 2024 | 2:31 午後
Hopefully that's a better copy and paste - very handy function.
👽'tW∆s ∆lienz👽
9月 11 2024 | 2:38 午後
here, i'll shout out to rest of the community to step in and help further...
but, just some update to what i found:
I attached the synth I'm working on.
i think, that attachment is only the stuff i posted but pasted within an .amxd... and as soon as i open it in Max it works:
so my guess is, there's something specific to working on it in Ableton, and i'm no longer experienced with Max4Live stuff to remember if there's something specific about poly~ to be set for Max4Live tracks(you could also try posting/changing this post to address the Max4Live part of the forums, more experienced users there will see it quicker)... but try posting your full patch, maybe i or someone can figure out more after taking a full look, you can also zip all the related files in one zip and attach here(you may have a separate patcher for the bpatcher you're working with? and that would also need to be included)
sorry for so much trouble with this, it seems an unusual set of hiccups(i wish they'd just make the patch work like it does in Max, anywhere else, but not sure why it doesn't yet...)
DaBigBoy01
9月 11 2024 | 2:41 午後
Okay - I removed the moog filter. I set my oscillator to a basic sawtooth. ADSR is on, and I get the sound that I expected. I then add the moogsnake patch, and put in the dials. I set the dial to 127 which, converted to frequency is 12,543 Hz. Same problem I'm having before, low frequency sounding sawtooth.
👽'tW∆s ∆lienz👽
9月 11 2024 | 2:47 午後
the patch you just posted shows up like this since you need to include the bpatcher and newer abstracted version of 'Moogsnake':
DaBigBoy01
9月 11 2024 | 2:49 午後
Here's the patcher for my oscillators. I know this works. Could have uploaded this earlier. Appreciate you trying to help.
I'd just like a basic Subtractive Synth with the Moog ladder filter. I can build on from there.
👽'tW∆s ∆lienz👽
9月 11 2024 | 2:58 午後
ok, i got one last idea, try the patch i posted below, just as it is(but with your plugout and inlets added specific to Max4Live - also remember to set the sliders/knobs to default values that you know will make sound), within ableton, if it works, then there's some file-preferences in Ableton(i forget where), that you need to set so that it finds the poly~ patcher properly:
alternately, you could just try reconstructing the gen~ into a poly~ file, then saving that poly~ file somewhere you know Max4Live will find it, and then retry.
but i really think it's just a matter of Max4Live finding the poly~ abstraction called, "poly.moogladderx2":
______________________
the way the poly~ works, it's just upsampling the gen~ within by 2x then resampling to output at normal sample-rate... so you can just copy/paste the gen~ within, to some other file and reconstruct so that it looks exactly like the pic posted just above(just add inlets and outlet and give arguments of '1 up 2 @resampling 1' <-this is all the poly~ is doing, the rest is the gen~ within which can be easily copy/pasted anywhere without having to refer back to the file)
hope it works, though! :D
DaBigBoy01
9月 11 2024 | 3:04 午後
Breakthrough, that worked. Finally I get sound and It does sound the way I expect it to.
DaBigBoy01
9月 11 2024 | 3:06 午後
Copied and pasted this into my synth and it works perfect :-)
👽'tW∆s ∆lienz👽
9月 11 2024 | 3:12 午後
ah sweet! ok, so you basically have just the gen~ implementation of moogladder without the upsampling. if you'd still like it to sound even smoother(with upsampling), just copy that gen~ into a separate file, and create a poly~ abstraction of your own for it, like in the pic above(very simple, just add inlets, one outlet, and then the arguments to upsample), and then you can save that wherever you like at which point your original [Moogsnake] abstraction should work(if this is confusing, and you're happy with it, no worries, or you can look at the poly~ helpfile, and msp tutorials specific to poly~ to understand what i mean further - https://docs.cycling74.com/max8/tutorials/11_polychapter01 )
glad we figured it out! 🙌 happy music-making :)
DaBigBoy01
9月 11 2024 | 3:15 午後
Good to know, thanks so much for your help!
Cheers!
Roman Thilenius
9月 11 2024 | 6:12 午後
this kind of stuff is all [gen~] - or third party binaries - because you cannot have a blocksize of 1 or lower in MSP.
sousastep
9月 13 2024 | 9:47 午後
check out the smFilterPack and gen-filters packages for two other ladder filters