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help!! poly~ gone rogue, voice won't shut off
Nov 19 2015 | 11:49 pm
EDIT December 4:
SOLUTION! it seems it has to do with something wrong with the C74's "Max MIDI Sender/Receiver", which are M4L MIDI routing devices (https://www.ableton.com/en/packs/max-7-pitch-and-time-machines/#?item_type=free) that I used to send MIDI to my patch. As soon as I replaced this MIDI router with the IRCOM's free M4L MIDI router (http://forumnet.ircam.fr/fr/produit/ircamax-collection/notesendreceive/) the problem disappeared. This is a very unexpected solution, as I was monitoring MIDI input to my poly~ carefully (as in screenshot) and had no duplicate or missing notes. Why this very-upstream MIDI routing was causing the problem is a mystery. However, beware to all that use C74's M4L MIDI routing.
THE PROBLEM: has plagued me for months, and is finally driving me completely insane. My poly~ is receiving MIDI notes from my keyboard. It's getting all the note on and note off messages. But every ~10-90 seconds when I'm playing, one of my poly~ voices just won't shut off. This happens under all conditions: even when I just play 1 note very slowly, eventually it'll stick.
THE LEADS: The only way for me to get this rogue poly~ voice to shut off is by going inside of the poly, and manually banging a 0 into the adsr~ object. This is my best lead: I suspect the rogue poly~ voice is in "busy" mode, and won't accept data from outside of poly~ (but why would this include the "allnotesoff" message and the note-off message?).
I can also get this voice to turn off by holding down more "voices" than the maximum I set for poly~
I attached some screenshots. the screenshot from the Max window shows poly~ is definitely receiving all its MIDI on/off messages, through the shown (midinote $1 $2) message. Yet that second note in the print window never turned off!! Resending that (midinote 62 0) again didn't change anything. I had to open the offending poly~ window, and sent a (62 0) message from within.
This is driving me nuts. Any help would be so appreciated.
- Nov 20 2015 | 12:44 pmhttps://github.com/jarenofcalifornia/Micromegas to try, download Micromegas.amxd and Micromegas MIDI Sender.amxd As a bonus for helping me out, you get my super-duper-neato granular sampler-looper :)
- Nov 27 2015 | 9:39 amBummed no one has offered advice or thoughts. I spent the afternoon trying to fix this. Added a lot to the original post and added screenshots. bump!
- Nov 27 2015 | 4:10 pmI don't really understand poly~'s busy state: sending a gain signal above 0 to thispoly~ will put it in a busy state. This is standard procedure (and I copied this part of my patch from R Henke's Granulator). But if while the poly~ voice is outputting gain it can't receive a noteoff message from outside, how does it ever stop playing?! I must be missing something.
- Nov 28 2015 | 3:14 amwhat i always say, those überfunctional things like adsr~ or automatic voice management in poly are producing more confusion than benefits.i bet that with "target 3, 62 0" this problem would not occur.
- Nov 28 2015 | 6:39 amThanks for your response Roman. I'm definitely mystified about the cause of this.Sending poly~ a message like "target 3, 62 0" assumes that I know which voice is stuck (3), and the MIDI number (62) ahead of time--but this problem equally effects all voices and MIDI numbers. Are you suggesting I do some sort of manual voice management in poly~?
- Nov 28 2015 | 4:41 pmYou have quite a big project. Just skimming over it , this place in [NoteIn] subpatcher looks suspicious:
- Nov 28 2015 | 4:52 pmyes of course, i am talking about a scenarion where you also use "target" to start a note.doing the voice management outside the poly is the only way how to exactly know what what note events are still running and how to stop them.
- Nov 28 2015 | 4:56 pmThanks for giving it a look AK, I really appreciate it! edit: Fixed that MIDI processing issue with the hold/latch pedal. Didn't effect my rogue poly~ issue. Problem exists even when bypassing all MIDI processing. It seems it's something in my poly~.Roman, I'll see if I can do this. Might you have any example patches that do manual poly~ voice management that I can work from?
- Nov 28 2015 | 9:40 pmin the screenshot AK posted you are banging the expression before the first value from the pack is even there. not sure if you really want this.re: examples there are many ways, i prefer to do it round robin style. in modern versions of max/msp you might want to optimize my [110.alloc] with the [cycle] object as routing machine.
- Nov 28 2015 | 9:42 pm...
- Nov 28 2015 | 9:43 pm"110.precede-x.zip: File is empty. Please upload something more substantial."oh man ^^
- Nov 28 2015 | 10:20 pmoh yeah I'm definitely busted with that pack/trigger timing issue ("My MIDI processing (especially that latch/hold pedal bit) does look a little fishy"...... uh yeah I could say that again). Fixed, didn't effect larger problem though.the examples are much appreciated, I'm going to check them out. My patch is already pretty sprawling so I'm a bit concerned about addressing this poly voice~ problem by doing more extensive patching, but I'd chop off my right pinky to solve this so I'm definitely gonna explore this. thanks again.
- Dec 02 2015 | 9:50 pmRoman I checked out your manual poly~ patches, they seem straightforward and might help my problem, however I feel like if I took this route I'd be avoiding some fundamental problem with my patch, or some misunderstanding I have about how poly~ works. It really makes me uneasy. I'd prefer to make one last push at understanding what's wrong with my patch as it is before replacing the adsr~ voice management.Any other thoughts on my patch would be deeply appreciated.
- Dec 04 2015 | 1:06 pmproblem solved :))) see edit to first post. thanks AK and Roman for offering your thoughts and advice.
- Dec 27 2018 | 8:34 amHey there Igneous, I'm a MAX/MSP beginner and I've been having the EXACT SAME PROBLEM with my polyphonic synth, but I don't quite understand your solution... does this have anything to do with M4L? cuz I'm using Max 7 outside of Live, (as I said, I'm something of a noob.) and btw the link you posted for IRCAM's MIDI Router is busted. I'd appreciate it if you could explain to me what exactly did you do to solve this issue...thanks.P.S. I do realize it's been quite a long time since you've had this issue, but it would mean a lot to me if you could help me out.
