i dont know how to learn max

one way can be to have a more or less clear aim. what would you like to build?

hmm okay so the first thing i need to think about is the end goal

lets say i wanted to build a 16 step drum sequencer that triggers synthesised samples, all i would do to get started on that is youtube "max msp drum sequencer" then watch and copy videos...the same with if i was using textbooks, i just copy stuff, it doesnt help me

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Also has in-depth learning for live

This might not work for you but what helped me at the start with zero programming knowledge to begin with was going through every! object, open the helpfile and find out what it does and how it does that (what is the input? what is the output? so what happens in between?) Ignore objects you don't understand and leave them for later and experiment with objects you like. I spent a lot of time adding stuff to the wave~ helpfile for example, pasting stuff over from other helpfiles and just "poke" around a bit... "poking" is crucial, this stimulates creativity and will help you learn!

Also the forum really is invaluable as a learning tool because you get to see how other people approach problems and learn from their solutions.

Hth

hmm, thanks very much ill do that. would learning other programming languages have any carry over at all? maybe i need to get into the programming headspace

I would recommend starting with some things that are really simple that you know from other programs and try to do it in Max. One of my first projects that I made was using max in place of Microsoft Powerpoint. In powerpoint you can only scroll between adjacent slides. Everything is linear. But with Max I could place like 5 subpatches on the top level, inside of those I could place a list of more subpatches that led to a third level. I ended up jamming over 2 gigs of information on what might be seen as a single page with different levels. Pretty cool! that was my oral defense for my Doctorate at University of Michigan. The file was filled large comment sections, and videos and music scores that were timed to change pages and follow the music. None of my professors could open the file cause it was so big it took like 20 minutes to open (exaggerated) The point is, I learned a whole of stuff with 1. a goal that was simple (as Roman mentioned) and 2. Building a project that emulated an already existing program but in a different way and 3. of course, poking around the help files (as LUVULONGTIME mentioned) which is what 99% of what I am still doing 7 years later, only a bit faster with a little bit more direction and understanding.

aww that was really nice u little alien, thanks, sometimes one just needs an external source to tell you it gets easier if you keep trying. these comments make me realise i probably have to have a better understanding of everything fundamental to synthesis/physical properties of sound in order to come up with some high level stuff, which will be in years to come but you gotta start somewhere.i have the book "musimathics" and im slowly chugging through that, just gunna cram as much knowledge as possible about sound so i really know what it is im gunna be making

also that einstein quote is decent, keeps coming back to me whenever i face a challenge

I started fresh with Max earlier this year, I found the interface a lot more intuitive than text based programming. I would echo the comments about the objects - the helpfiles are invaluable for understanding how to implement objects. Playing around with the cords and objects - worst that can happen you get a red box and you know you need to change something. I think what comes with experience in MAX is probably how to streamline your patches - less objects, less unnecessary steps - and ultimately a cleaner patch.