i dont know how to learn max


    Nov 07 2018 | 10:59 am
    max to me is totally impenetrable, its like a thousand mile thick wall that im bashing a toothpick into. i cant really get past regurgitating what the inbuilt tutorials give you, i dont have the knowledge of what objects to use for an idea for a patch if im starting with a blank canvas. nothing stays in my head, i do the tutorials and its like... then what? i dont know how to expand on it, or even if i should expand on it cause i didnt come up with it in the first place
    watching youtube tutorials dont help too, cause im literally just copying what they do and nothing is being LEARNT
    ne1 else felt similar? how to overcome this obstacle that faces me?

    • Nov 07 2018 | 11:34 am
      one way can be to have a more or less clear aim. what would you like to build?
    • Nov 07 2018 | 11:46 am
      hmm okay so the first thing i need to think about is the end goal
      lets say i wanted to build a 16 step drum sequencer that triggers synthesised samples, all i would do to get started on that is youtube "max msp drum sequencer" then watch and copy videos...the same with if i was using textbooks, i just copy stuff, it doesnt help me
    • Nov 07 2018 | 12:55 pm
      Look here for max .. Kadenze.com Its free and easy to grip. Also has in-depth learning for live
    • Nov 07 2018 | 1:37 pm
      This might not work for you but what helped me at the start with zero programming knowledge to begin with was going through every! object, open the helpfile and find out what it does and how it does that (what is the input? what is the output? so what happens in between?) Ignore objects you don't understand and leave them for later and experiment with objects you like. I spent a lot of time adding stuff to the wave~ helpfile for example, pasting stuff over from other helpfiles and just "poke" around a bit... "poking" is crucial, this stimulates creativity and will help you learn!
      Also the forum really is invaluable as a learning tool because you get to see how other people approach problems and learn from their solutions.
      Hth
    • Nov 07 2018 | 1:52 pm
      hmm, thanks very much ill do that. would learning other programming languages have any carry over at all? maybe i need to get into the programming headspace
    • Nov 07 2018 | 2:27 pm
      I would recommend starting with some things that are really simple that you know from other programs and try to do it in Max. One of my first projects that I made was using max in place of Microsoft Powerpoint. In powerpoint you can only scroll between adjacent slides. Everything is linear. But with Max I could place like 5 subpatches on the top level, inside of those I could place a list of more subpatches that led to a third level. I ended up jamming over 2 gigs of information on what might be seen as a single page with different levels. Pretty cool! that was my oral defense for my Doctorate at University of Michigan. The file was filled large comment sections, and videos and music scores that were timed to change pages and follow the music. None of my professors could open the file cause it was so big it took like 20 minutes to open (exaggerated) The point is, I learned a whole of stuff with 1. a goal that was simple (as Roman mentioned) and 2. Building a project that emulated an already existing program but in a different way and 3. of course, poking around the help files (as LUVULONGTIME mentioned) which is what 99% of what I am still doing 7 years later, only a bit faster with a little bit more direction and understanding.
    • Nov 07 2018 | 5:35 pm
      ne1 else felt similar? how to overcome this obstacle that faces me?
      most of us felt similar to the way you do now, to some degree when we first started(there are some who came with extensive programming/audio/video experience, but those folks also started at some point with the same feeling, even if not in Max)..
      when i first started, i knew i wanted to build a sampler, and separately i thought the FM tutorial was one of the most interesting... i couldn't figure out sampling without clicks/pops very easily so i set right away on modifying the FM tutorial in different ways(i just started patching objects randomly into other things until i started to get sounds i liked at which point i really poked through to see how each object contributed to the sound(disconnecting/reconnecting, etc.))... going through the tutorials is a must, but some of us do it at different paces. once you've started learning, try whatever idea pops into your head, if you can't figure it out, you can ask here...
      by the way, you wrote this: "its like a thousand mile thick wall that i'm bashing a toothpick into" that's a very creative way to put it! at some point you probably started out learning the english language with similar obstacles, now look at you! πŸ™Œ genius metaphors just spillin' out of you without any effort, waxin' poetic like a BOSS! πŸ’ͺ
      keep at it, it gets easier.
      "Do not worry about your difficulties in mathematics. I can assure you mine are still greater." -Albert Einstein
      "Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever." -Gandhi
    • Nov 07 2018 | 10:14 pm
      aww that was really nice u little alien, thanks, sometimes one just needs an external source to tell you it gets easier if you keep trying. these comments make me realise i probably have to have a better understanding of everything fundamental to synthesis/physical properties of sound in order to come up with some high level stuff, which will be in years to come but you gotta start somewhere.i have the book "musimathics" and im slowly chugging through that, just gunna cram as much knowledge as possible about sound so i really know what it is im gunna be making
      also that einstein quote is decent, keeps coming back to me whenever i face a challenge
    • Nov 08 2018 | 2:27 am
      I started fresh with Max earlier this year, I found the interface a lot more intuitive than text based programming. I would echo the comments about the objects - the helpfiles are invaluable for understanding how to implement objects. Playing around with the cords and objects - worst that can happen you get a red box and you know you need to change something. I think what comes with experience in MAX is probably how to streamline your patches - less objects, less unnecessary steps - and ultimately a cleaner patch.
    • Nov 08 2018 | 4:04 am
      all i would do to get started on that is youtube
      no, not youtube. start patching on your own. produce, produce, produce, and make a lot of errors.
    • Nov 08 2018 | 4:53 pm
      As a person who came to Max with only a background in painting, I empathize with your frustration! I have to second Kadenze, specifically the 'Programming Max ' class, which is a free basic overview for all aspects of Max.
      Cycling's website is an insane resource, that can be overwhelming at times, but I would say it definitely offers more than youtube.
      Also don't be afraid to read the same tutorial many many many times.