jit.ndi - Externals for sending video/audio over the network

    Mar 28 2020 | 9:55 am
    Had this one in the 'should probably get this released soon' pile for quite a while but have now taken advantage of my current excess of free time to push it over the finish line. Above is a first version of my NDI package for Max, which allows you to send/receive jitter matrices and MSP signals over a network to/from any device which supports NDI.
    If you don't know what NDI is, it's a protocol created by NewTek for video/audio over IP. It has very high performance and low-latency, and there's a lot of reasonably cost-effective hardware which supports it natively (e.g. https://www.bird-dog.tv/studio-overview/). NewTek also sell a camera app for iOS (https://www.newtek.com/software/ndi-camera/) which is a very cheap way to get a wireless camera into your patch.
    Package is free for all and LGPL licensed. Have done moderate testing, but still could be a few fatal crashes in there so please be careful if using in anything important. The thing that's been tested least is the audio receiving side, if you're using this please let me know how it's working for you.

    • Mar 28 2020 | 10:38 am
      Amazing, Thank You!
    • Mar 28 2020 | 10:52 am
      David, Thx for this. Is the runtime for Windows only? Link is to .exe. file?
    • Mar 28 2020 | 10:57 am
      No there’s a mac runtime as well, I’ll update the link in a bit. If you download the Mac version of NDI tools it will install the runtime.
    • Mar 28 2020 | 11:05 am
      Cool, got the Mac runtime link from console. B
    • Mar 28 2020 | 4:27 pm
      Hello David, Avec mes plus sincères remerciements. imp, ndi, posistage... you're the man! H.
    • Mar 29 2020 | 10:47 am
      Thanks David! Don't hate me, but I'm just wondering... do you have any plans in implementing GL texture input/output for your externals?
    • Mar 29 2020 | 1:41 pm
      @LSKA So because it's network based, all NDI data has to go through the CPU. Therefore adding GL texture IO natively to the object wouldn't help much as essentially I'd have to implement a mechanism to convert the texture to/from a standard jitter matrix before it could be sent/received. Jitter already has this functionality via jit.gl.asyncread and jit.gl.texture objects, so there's not much point in me duplicating it. What I may do however is add an extra page to the help patchers showing how to do the texture conversion.
    • Mar 29 2020 | 2:43 pm
      @David You're right, I didn't think of that.
    • Mar 29 2020 | 4:30 pm
      This is great—looking forward to testing it out! I'm getting 'no such object' for jit.ndi.send~.... I've installed the runtime for Mac and the NDI tools. Do I need another step to convert the vcxproj files?
    • Mar 29 2020 | 4:38 pm
      @antialias Looks like you've downloaded the source code rather than the compiled objects, this is the download you need.
    • Mar 29 2020 | 4:44 pm
      Thanks David!
    • Mar 30 2020 | 2:52 am
    • Mar 30 2020 | 12:08 pm
      Superb! I used it with the NDI Syphon, great that this extra step isn't necessary anymore. But unfortunately i don't get the external running, i still get the message in the Max window: "Unable to load NDI runtime library. Please download and/or reinstall NDI runtime from 'http://new.tk/NDIRedistV4Apple' and restart Max" I have done this and installed also NewTekNDIHXDriverForMacOS, NewTekNDIToolsForMacOS and libNDI_for_Mac.pkg Is there anything i forgot or can check to get it working? Max 8.1.3 MacOS 10.14.6 Thanks in advance!
    • Mar 30 2020 | 1:24 pm
      @Aartcore Have you restarted your system since installing? If not try that. Otherwise could you run find /usr/local/lib -name libndi.4.dylib in the terminal and post the result?
    • Mar 30 2020 | 1:38 pm
      Yes tried also restarting. terminal found the file: /usr/local/lib/libndi.4.dylib (file date is 26 march 2020) NDI is also working on my computer, for instance the NewTek NDI Scan Converter sends the image to NDISyphon btw. when i load the jit.ndi.receive~ or send object i get the message 6 times: "Unable to load NDI runtime library. Please download and/or reinstall NDI runtime from 'http://new.tk/NDIRedistV4Apple' and restart Max" may be this could be helpful in solving the problem?
    • Mar 30 2020 | 5:10 pm
      @Aartcore I've checked my code for loading the library and it's exactly as detailed in the SDK example. Could you try completely removing all NDI installations and files from your system and reinstall just the runtime from http://new.tk/NDIRedistV4Apple? Check that all version of libndi are removed from /usr/local/libfirst.
    • Mar 31 2020 | 9:41 am
      Hi David, i tried it on another computer (without already NDI installed) and it worked without problems. Max 8.1.3 and an older MacOS HighSierra 10.13.6
      I tried to uninstall NDI, but unfortunately there is no uninstaller, so i removed all the files from Library>Application Support>NewTek and the /usr/local/lib/libndi.4.dylib (the only NDI related file in that folder i could find) After restarts and installing the drivers again it did't work... Are there any other locations i have to remove and reinstall the NDI drivers? It's clear it is something on my computer, conflicting with drivers or so..
    • Apr 01 2020 | 1:09 am
      @Aartcore Not sure of any other relevant locations. Essentially there's two steps to the loading process, finding the library file and then loading the named function. Would be interested to find out which of those is failing.
    • Apr 04 2020 | 4:55 am
      Thanks! This is great, have been working on some building-encompassing AV interactive art, NDI is far from perfect but is certainly handy! Bravo!
    • Apr 08 2020 | 9:00 pm
      hello david, is it possible to stream peer2peer (from max to max) with the NDI externals? like with netsend~ etc. ? thanks for any hints
    • Apr 08 2020 | 9:12 pm
      @klaus Yes the jit.ndi.receive object can receive from the jit.ndi.send object. Should likely have better performance than netsend as well.
    • Apr 08 2020 | 9:37 pm
      thanks for the quick reply. sounds great, but i did not find out how to from the help files. can i connect to an IP with jit.ndi.send~ ?
    • Apr 08 2020 | 9:44 pm
      @klaus NDI doesn’t work with IPs addresses directly. Sources get advertised on the local network using host name and source name. Set those two attributes on the receive object to match the send object.
    • Apr 08 2020 | 10:04 pm
      ah ok, thanks for clarifying this. so with a VPN it should work out of the house...will test this very soon.
    • Apr 09 2020 | 9:07 pm
      jit.NDI via VPN does not work out of the box. the VPN needs to be open for bonjour recognition (or such). any insights in how to setup this?
    • Apr 09 2020 | 9:16 pm
      @klaus NDI wasn't really designed to be used over the internet as the bandwidth requirement for an HD stream is pretty high (around 100 mbps). I know there are a couple of products that allow NDI routing over the web (for example), but the price is pretty high as they're quite pro-oriented.
    • Apr 09 2020 | 11:14 pm
      if we send jitter matrices like the bball.mov in the helpfile, is it blown up to HD ?
    • Apr 09 2020 | 11:17 pm
      @kalus Nope, the matrix is sent at the exact dimension it is when passed to the object.
    • Apr 13 2020 | 2:34 am
      Hi David, same issue as @aartcore when ever I instantiate the jit.ndi.receive~ I get this message Unable to load NDI runtime library. Please download and/or reinstall NDI runtime from 'http://new.tk/NDIRedistV4Apple' and restart Max
      I've downloaded the NDI runtime and installed, restarted my machine, still no success.
    • Apr 13 2020 | 2:36 am
      @Aaron seems everyone is having this issue apart from me. I have a github issue up for it now, https://github.com/impsnldavid/jit.ndi/issues/6, check there for updates or if you have any useful information to add.
    • Apr 23 2020 | 4:40 pm
      Thank you so much! I had stopped doing my regular search on this forum hoping that someone would be kind enough to come up with this.. util today. You made my day :) I will start testing.
    • Apr 27 2020 | 7:50 pm
      @Aarron I had the same problem as everyone. Got it working like a charm as soon as I have updated to Catalina.
    • May 13 2020 | 11:32 pm
      gonna try to use this to send my macbook's built-in camera to my windows machine.
    • May 23 2020 | 2:56 am
      Thanks to help from Rama and Todd Ingalls on the Max slack, the issue with loading the NDI runtime on Mojave seems resolved. Updated package below:
    • May 24 2020 | 7:13 pm
      Another new release, new features this time. jit.ndi.receive~ can now control NDI enabled PTZ cameras. Additionally jit.ndi.send~ can optionally act as a 'virtual PTZ' camera. This means that it will advertise the NDI source as having PTZ capability, and any received PTZ control data will be output from the object. You can then hook this up to whatever you want in Max. In the help patcher I've shown a basic example of interacting with a jit.gl scene.
    • May 25 2020 | 8:21 am
      Thanks for the update! It's working fine now on my computer!
    • Jun 03 2020 | 12:09 am
      Hi David, super useful externals!
      Quick question: I notice quite a long latency (maybe half a second) when using this with the NDI virtual camera -- is this something innate to NDI virtual camera or is it something we could tweak in the jit.ndi.send~ external?
    • Jun 03 2020 | 12:29 am
      @Graham Wakefield Shouldn't be, the control values are output immediately upon being received. Do you get the same result when testing on the same machine (ie via loopback)?
    • Jun 03 2020 | 3:08 am
      Thanks David!
      It *is* on the same machine... but, the system's wifi is on (it is part of a larger system in which other parts need internet access), so I guess it may be bouncing the video stream to the wifi router and back even for same-machine streams. I did notice in playing around that streaming between machines on the wifi network has the same latency as a single machine streaming to itself.
      Could there be a way to configure the jit.ndi externals to use a specific network, such as loopback, without disabling wifi? More generally, if there are several network providers on a machine (e.g. wifi, wired, loopback), how can we tell it which network device to use?
    • Jun 03 2020 | 3:29 am
      @Graham Wakefield
      NDI doesn't allow you to specify specific network adapters. It will actually try and use multiple network adapters (to increase bandwidth) as long as there is a route to the destination available. The only way to prevent NDI traffic on an adapter is to use the firewall specifically block access to certain ports.
      However I'd be very surprised if traffic is being routed via your wireless router as NDI should automatically use the loopback adapter in this circumstance. Try disabling your WiFi adapter and see if the result is any different.
    • Jul 04 2020 | 1:23 pm
      Hey, David. These objects are fantastic - thanks for your excellent work! One small issue - the NDI Runtime does not install automatically when creating an instance of jit.ndi.send~, and the URL it's trying to pull the install from doesn't work even when entered manually: http://new.tk/NDIRedistV4Apple Just a "not found" page. I was able to install the macOS runtime provided with the obs-ndi package, and that did the trick for the Jitter NDI objects. I find it very strange - there's no NDI Runtime provided by Newtek, and the top results when searching on Google are from the obs-ndi package. Is NDI Runtime something that has to be packaged and provided specifically by developers like you on a case-by-case basis or something?
    • Jul 04 2020 | 1:55 pm
      @Eric Usually the runtime would be packaged by developers, however in this case I'd have to package jit.ndi in an installer which I'd prefer not to do as eventually I hope to have it distributed via the Max package manager. Looks like NewTek have changed their download links though annoyingly, I will correct them in the next version.
      The easiest way to get the NDI runtime is to install the NDI Tools, which I would highly recommend anyway as this package has all the test applications and allows things like desktop capture and use of an NDI source as a virtual webcam for use with other software.
    • Jul 04 2020 | 2:07 pm
      Hmm. I'm pretty sure I had the NDI Tools installed before trying jit.ndi, but it's hard to say at this point. The NDI Tools installer for macOS is weird because it breaks each utility into its own installer (not sure if the Windows installer does the same). I have the Virtual Input and Video Monitor installed, but did not bother with Access Manager, AdobeCC plugin, or Scan Converter as I didn't think they were relevant to me. Perhaps the runtime stuff I needed was in the Access Manager installer? Regardless, thanks again for your incredible work, and I hope jit.ndi gets added to the Max package manager soon!
    • Jul 10 2020 | 7:44 pm
      Thank you for creating this - unfortunately having a slight issue getting it to work. On a Mac using 10.15.5 Max 8.1.5
      The first time I created the object Max opened a message about it being quarantined and that it would try and fix it. Unfortunately I did not copy the exact message and it only happened the first time so I can't be more specific.
      The object now appears but has no inlets and throws up the error message in the max window - "Can't find NDI runtime library - 'dlopen(/usr/local/lib/libndi.4.dylib, 5): image not found'. Please download and/or reinstall NDI runtime from 'http://new.tk/NDIRedistV4Apple' and restart Max"
      That link unfortunately no longer works. I have downloaded the NDI Tools and NDI Driver. I cannot find a NDI Runtime anywhere to download.
      Any help will be most appreciated!!
    • Jul 10 2020 | 11:00 pm
      @Stefan If you've installed the NDI tools then you should have the runtime. Can you check that the dylib file specified actually exists at that path?
    • Jul 10 2020 | 11:48 pm
      Its not at that path - nor does a find in terminal find the dylib file.
      The NDI Tools work - or at least some subset of them do - I can use the NDI IOS Camera App and see my iphone output in the NDI Video Monitor.
    • Jul 11 2020 | 2:47 pm
      @Stefan Try uninstalling the tools, and reinstall the latest version from the NewTek site. Also make sure you've got the most recent version of jit.ndi.
    • Jul 12 2020 | 4:34 pm
      Hey, David. One other thing that might be helpful for users of the jit.ndi objects: OBS Studio does not always appear to play well with the alpha channel in NDI sources. The NDISyphon standalone app has an alpha channel enable/disable checkbox that helps to fix this, though of course that requires using Syphon instead (and going though an intermediary application). Would it be possible to add an alpha enable/disable to a future version of jit.ndi.send~?
    • Jul 12 2020 | 4:49 pm
      @Eric If you send a 3-plane matrix in ARGB colour mode, then it will be sent as NDI RGBX frame type. A value for alpha does get written here but it's 255 for every pixel. It's then up to the receiver to examine the NDI frame type and decide what to do with this, the correct implementation would be to deserialize the NDI frame as a non-alpha texture but obviously software can vary.
      You can also use UVYV colour mode, this doesn't support an alpha channel.
    • Jul 20 2020 | 4:51 pm
      @David When you eventually put the jit.ndi external into the package manager, are you planning on publishing it with the NDI Runtime as a whole package? Just curious, we would love to integrate this into the Signal Culture app suite, but i'd like to avoid user confusion about which runtime to download.
      And thanks for your work on this, pretty fantastic stuff!
    • Jul 20 2020 | 4:57 pm
      @Jason Bundling it with the runtime would necessitate running an installer which as far as I'm aware is not possible for a package manager installation.
      On Windows, the runtime is pretty clear cut. It's only on Mac that there's confusion as the official link to the Mac runtime which is embedded in the NewTek SDK is broken! Basically just link Mac users to the NDI Tools package and you'll get the runtime with that installation.
    • Sep 22 2020 | 5:20 pm
      Hi @David, I'm testing your jit.ndi externals, and I find that the quality of the video in Max is much lower than the quality I'm receiving in the NewTek NDI Video Monitor. When I enable "low bandwidth" in the NDI Video Monitor, the quality appears to be equal to that which I receive in Max.
      I've played with the low_bandwidth message into jit.ndi.receive~, and it does not seem to change the quality of the video in Max. Is it possible that the jit.ndi object is currently only receiving video in low_bandwidth mode? Or could you suggest another direction for me to test? Thanks for your hard work on this project.
      [edit] for reference, I'm on OSX 10.13.6, and jit.ndi.receive~ is V0.2.0.
    • Sep 22 2020 | 7:25 pm
      Just to update. I'm not super familiar with Jitter. Running the [jit.ndi.receive~] matrix output into [jit.matrixinfo] tells me that I'm receiving 640px x 360px video. But I am sending via OBS-ndi, as far as I can tell, 1920px x 1080px video.
      It appears to me video in the NDI Video Monitor is being received at the correct resolution. Is there an option I'm missing on the [jit.ndi.receive~] side of things?
    • Sep 22 2020 | 8:27 pm
      @Peter jit.ndi.receive~ creates the output matrix at the native resolution of the NDI stream. I've just done a quick test playing an HD media file from OBS, receiving in Jitter, and I got the same resolution as the source. What is your OBS configuration?
    • Sep 22 2020 | 10:10 pm
      @David thank you for your help. Your description of jit.ndi.receive~ functionality is as I had thought. It's possible I've made an error in my OBS settings! However the OBS-ndi stream received by NDI Monitor looks good.
      I am attaching here screenshots of the situation. The image in the stream, it is just a test feed from an IP camera. Thanks again for your insight to my situation.
      OBS Video Settings.
      OBS Video Settings.
      OBS Output Settings
      OBS Output Settings
      OBS Advanced Settings
      OBS Advanced Settings
      Jit.matrixinfo, 640x360 video received.
      Jit.matrixinfo, 640x360 video received.
      NDI video stream received in Jitter.
      NDI video stream received in Jitter.
      NDI video stream received in NDI Video Monitor
      NDI video stream received in NDI Video Monitor
    • Sep 23 2020 | 3:14 am
      @Peter What version of obs-ndi are you using?
    • Sep 23 2020 | 3:12 pm
      @David I'm running the latest: OBS-ndi 4.9.1, with OBS 25.0.8.
      I did a test using Newtek NDI Scan Converter to share my desktop over NDI. The stream appeared in Jitter with the same 640x360 resolution that I had received from OBS. So given that, and that my OBS stream appears fine in Newtek Video Monitor, I think it's possible to rule out a problem on the OBS side?
      Bit of a head scratcher!
    • Sep 23 2020 | 3:17 pm
      @Peter Do you get the same result when receiving an NDI stream sent from jit.ndi.send~?
    • Sep 23 2020 | 3:38 pm
      @David -- good idea. I've tested sending 1080p video out of jit.ndi.send~ into jit.ndi.receive~, and the same problem persists. Note screenshots, where 1080p is received as 640x360.
      On the other hand, the default "bball.mov", a 320x240 video, is correctly received by jit.ndi.receive~ as a 320x240 stream. Strange--it gives the impression that I have a setting somewhere that caps the resolution at 640x360.
      jit.ndi.send~ transmitting 1920x1080 video
      jit.ndi.send~ transmitting 1920x1080 video
      1920x1080 video, is received by jit.ndi.receive~ as 640x360
      1920x1080 video, is received by jit.ndi.receive~ as 640x360
    • Sep 24 2020 | 9:41 pm
      @Peter Would you mind creating this as a Github issue so I can track and investigate?
    • Sep 25 2020 | 2:26 pm
      @David sure thing. The issue has been added:
      I'll be receiving a 2010 Mac Pro with Yosemite in the next couple days, with which I intend run this patch. So I'll be testing on that system, and will update my bug report with the results.
      Thanks again warmly for your help!
    • Sep 25 2020 | 3:44 pm
    • Sep 25 2020 | 3:47 pm
      For anyone else tracking this here, I can reproduce this problem, but it only affects Mac OS. The issue is that the NDI runtime is returning the incorrect dimensions.
    • Sep 25 2020 | 4:17 pm
      @Rob thanks for the info! I will update that Mac to 10.11.
    • Sep 25 2020 | 4:29 pm
      Just to update anyone tracking the issue in this thread. LSka responded to my Git issue, with this info:
      Hi, I tried the test patch and I'm getting 1920x1080 stream in jit.ndi.receive~ I'm on Max 8.1.6 MacOS 10.14.6, NDI runtime downloaded from here: https://ndi.palakis.fr/runtime/ndi-runtime-4.5.1-macOS.pkg
      After re-installing NDI from LSka's provided link, and rebooting, my 1080p stream is correctly received as 1080p video by [jit.ndi.receive~].
      1080p correctly received by [jit.ndi.receive~]
      1080p correctly received by [jit.ndi.receive~]
      Thanks again everyone for working to resolve this issue.
    • Feb 04 2021 | 5:49 pm
      I'm putting together a large remote orchestra project and I've gotten this to work with Max but I'm wondering if this is doable in Ableton, has anyone tried this yet? I'm only routing audio.
      Great device!
    • Feb 04 2021 | 5:52 pm
      There's no reason it wouldn't work in Ableton. However, I would suggest that NDI isn't the best option for sending audio over a network. Something like AVB or Dante is far more reliable and capable.
    • Feb 04 2021 | 9:15 pm
      For my project I pretty much have to use ndi from skype as it's the only widely available conferencing software that allows me to pull everyones audio into separate channels for mixing. I'm trying to make a multi channel device in Max to do this. Bad idea? Or is there a better step to have in between?
      I was trying to use OBS but I need to have that available for streaming.
    • Feb 05 2021 | 8:39 am
      @TREVOR have you heard of Jamulus https://jamulus.io/ ?
    • Feb 05 2021 | 2:31 pm
      Following thread...
    • Feb 07 2021 | 4:40 pm
      @LSKA I do know of Jamulus, it's a great program and I' musing Jacktrip and Sonobus for the more tech savvy members of the orchestra, but i'm trying to keep things as simple as possible for the others. This is working in Max for me right now but maybe I don't have the external placed correctly for M4L, it keeps crashing. Everything else is running great and I'm headed into phase 2, so to speak, of getting the project off the ground.
    • Apr 01 2021 | 5:28 pm
      It's seem like NDI runtime is not available anymore.
      Somebody have the installer ? :-/
    • Apr 01 2021 | 5:55 pm
      my assumption is that installing NDI tools installs the runtime...
    • Apr 01 2021 | 5:55 pm
      newobj: jit.ndi.receive~: No such object
      Catalina issue ? 10.15.7
      I removed the Catalina packages security...