My God. Since 1985 and it's not a complete package?
Hi. Forgive my latent hostility. I'm not trying master Max. I'm trying to use it for something I'm developing.
Joel taught us about IRCAM's work in 1985 on what became Max. I'm trying to test the use of wave shapes to modulate waveforms. Ambient waveforms. Is it true I now have to search the web for basic things l like, "Play this .wav file"? Is it true the stock package doesn't enable the use of .js in an app that's supposed to use .js.?
I learn by "doing," not by studying. That's why I sucked at the undergrad level. Is it really nearly impossible to dive in and start experimenting in Max because the basic functions aren't included?
OK, so I made it to Package Manager because, apparently, shell~ 1 isn't possible in the stock configuration? OK, so how do I use the Package Manager search function to find it? Do I start Googling?
What am I missing, because this make a roomful of Moog inputs like downright intuitive.
Glenn
Apologies if this is off-topic. After a couple days of this, I'm incapable of logic.
Try the MSP tutorials -> MSP Basics Tutorial 3: Wavetable Oscillator ?
As a useful way to familiarize yourself with stuff outside of tutorials, you can open the Help file for objects (either by secondary-clicking, or doing alt/option-H). These show basic implementations for how to use the objects. They also show some related objects in the sidebar under "See Also".
Who's Joel?
Who's Joel?
Is it true I now have to search the web for basic things l like, "Play this .wav file"?
Is it true the stock package doesn't enable the use of .js in an app that's supposed to use .js.?
wat? i don't understand any context for these questions 😂
there's groove~ to play things with real easily, and also you can drag a .wav file directly onto a blank patcher and it'll do something for ya these days 😂
as for .js, there's the js object included, maybe you heard of 'node' being a separate package, i don't understand the js things, but js is definitely available for various things(jitter and audio), standard-included. just type 'n' to start a 'new object' then start typing 'js', various things should pop-up in the pop-up menu. including the 'js' object which is where the action seems to start(also check the helpfile for buffer~ under the 'js' tab 😉)
I learn by "doing," not by studying.Joel studied with Elliott Carter.
I dont know what else to say on this subject that isnt already implied
Never one to avoid making a fool of myself to help someone else, here's what happened:
I've been doing AI-assisted programming work. I'm not a programmer. I've hired programmers to develop things for me over the years, but, this time, I'm taking it on myself. It's been going reasonably well, until I got to prototyping the bit I've been waiting for which is to import data and have it impact waveforms or granular synthesis. Not sure which yet. So, naturally, I went to the two AI tools I use the most, Claude and ChatGPT, to help me get going in Max. Claude took me down a garden path for a full day. Desperately wanting to get into Max, I switched to ChatGPT and spent two more days down endless rabbit holes. Neither LLM suggested simply dropping the .wav into Patcher! Apparently, neither has much, if any, entrainment on Max, which is disappointing because I need to move into prototyping, not a year's-long learning curve.
So, your opinions, please:
When thinking about prototyping with Max, is the learning curve as steep as the LLMs made it seem, or can I use Forums and Help functions to get up to speed relatively quickly in the limited, but fairly complicated, workflow I need for my use case? I've also been looking at TouchDesigner Professional. I can make the spend.
Any opinions?
Thanks.
Glenn
Regarding Wil's comment: As a post-graduate trained learning professional—with, in addition, a masters in music, and a 30-year career spent learning how others learn—I'm well-accustomed to people in all sorts of domains extolling the supposedly universal benefits of pedagogical methods over more experiential and neurological approaches. I didn't come here to clarify the situational efficacy of brain-based learning theory. I came here to find out if an intuitive/experiential approach to learning Max is possible at a moment when my work doesn't afford the time for an extended learning curve.
As for Joel Chadabe learning from Elliot Carter (and Elliot Carter having studied with Nadia Boulanger, if you'd like a more complete example), you'd imply more about yourself than me by equating intuitive/experiential learning of a software package with an education in composition from within a lineage of masters.
I wouldn't know what else to say other than what I've implied.
still, like raja mentioned, "play that wave file" can be solved by dragging it onto the patcher canvas.
it could not be simpler, and when it comes to these things max is the perfect language for user like the three of us, who do not read books to learn new things but just "do" it.
saying that, i am not sure if one really want to have such higher level max objects for everything. that weird soundfileplayer thing is not exactly the perfect example of a low CPU, supergeneralized object, mildly put. :)
like with all those higher level objects, one user might like its design, while others will not.
and, imho, the requirement to find out that in order to build a fileplayer you need to use
expr [exp(.057762265*($f1-60.))] ,
followed by the filelength in milliseconds
running into a [line~]
then dividing the signal ramp by [!/ lenght] to drive play~ with it
only after you were "reading replace filepath 0 -1 2" into a buffer~ with the same name as the play~, )
teaches you a lot more than the drag and drop option for the autoplay nonsense.
last but not least you have both options at your hand, so that you can choose the style of working you prefer.
*) of course you should also upsample x2
Thanks, Roman! Yes, Raja was 100% right and I was amazed / not amazed by how both LLMs got it completely wrong while pretending to be completely right.
Yours is a very helpful and balanced reply. I take this as, "Max is an option" and I need to determine if something like TouchDesigner Professional might be better and worth the price or if taking the time to learn Max by using Max would yield spinoff learning benefits.
I think for my use case being about getting to prototype, I'm leaning toward TouchDesigner. The up-front cost and what I'm assuming is also a steep learning curve might still be worth it in terms of getting my prototype done more quickly.
Now that I've finally come back to what Max is, it will be an instrument after my project is up and running and I can learn what I've missed over the past 40 years.
Thank you!
Glenn