JCVL

was there ever a max/msp version of Radial?

I was using it extensively for making and performing music long time ago and totally miss it - there was nothing quite like Radial or at least nothing as quick and fun for drafting ideas and finishing them later in the DAW. Just too bad non of my computer can open it nowadays.

i thought it would be great to recreate it on Max but maybe there is already some version available around?

HI,

was there ever a max/msp version of Radial?  

I was using it extensively for making and performing music long time ago and totally miss it - there was nothing quite like Radial or at least nothing as quick and fun  for drafting ideas and finishing them later in the DAW. Just too bad non of my computer can open it nowadays. 

HI,

was there ever a max/msp version of Radial?  
I was using it extensively for making and performing music long time ago and totally miss

radial-maxmsp-patch

Last beta from 2007 would run on MacOS that still supports 32 bit architecture.

Don't remember exactly, but only custom thing inside were few externals

what actually prevents it from running is ilok installation,

but now that this really is discontinued product ...

Radial is Max Standalone.
Last beta from 2007 would run on MacOS that still supports 32 bit architecture.
Don't remember exactly, but only custom thing inside were few externals
radial.mxo, bar.mxo, dropzone.mxo etc
what actually prevents it from running is ilok installation,
but now that this really is discontinued product ...
....



I had licence for RadiaL back then and I work on MacOS Mojave so I guess 32bit architecture should be supported, not sure how to convert 1.5 beta I've just downloaded though. Any help would be deeply appreciated!

Screen Shot 2020-07-16 at 16.46.26.png

mount Radial DMG, right click on mpkg and show package contents

radiaL.zip

Screen Shot 2020-07-16 at 16.41.26.png

mount Radial DMG, right click on mpkg and show package contents
install only Radial , NOT ilok
if you get any trouble from gatekeeper,
open terminal, type 
xattr -cr    ( add space after cr)
and drop radial app, hit enter


I'm so happy to have it back and working under Mojave! 

OMG it works!!!! Thank you so much!
 I'm so happy to have it back and working under Mojave! 
🙏🙏🙏

You are welcome.
I have removed the files...


Is there any chance you could share the radiaL dmg? I just did a clean install of Mojave (because I wanted M, Metasynth and radiaL back in my life) yesterday and find that the Cycling download doesn't seem to contain the fully required dmg. I have an original disk but it predates intel unfortunately.

Hi Source Audio,
Is there any chance you could share the radiaL dmg? I just did a clean install of Mojave (because I wanted M, Metasynth and radiaL back in my life) yesterday and find that the Cycling download doesn't seem to contain the fully required dmg. I have an original disk but it predates intel unfortunately.

Sorry, but I don't have any other dmg then what is available as download.

Sorry, but I don't have any other dmg then what is available as download.
Also don't use radial at all.
What is missing then ?


Actually, I was just having difficulty opening the dmg, but I used Pacifist and succeeded. Unfortunately, I can't get past this:

Screenshot 2020-11-19 at 12.56.33.png

I've installed various extensions, including ones in the dmg but with no luck. I vaguely remember getting around this before, but not for a few years..

Actually, I was just having difficulty opening the dmg, but I used Pacifist and succeeded. Unfortunately, I can't get past this: 

I've installed various extensions, including ones in the dmg but with no luck. I vaguely remember getting around this before, but not for a few years.. 

I remember now what was the problem alltogether

You can delete or uninstall all that pace interlok stuff.

 and replace the one in Radial App with it.

P.S. I am posting this because software is really outdated, and there is NO OTHER

SOLUTION to pace problem to use purchased software on new Macs.

your problem there is pace extensions.
I remember now what was the problem alltogether
and what I posted as solution.
You can delete or uninstall all that pace interlok stuff.

Download the max runtime version 4.6.3
rename binary to radiaL and replace the one in Radial App with it.
then it should work
P.S. I am posting this because software is really outdated, and there is NO OTHER
SOLUTION to pace problem to use purchased software on new Macs.


Thanks, Source Audio, that seems to have worked perfectly! That's the second time you've helped me out on this forum. In the meantime, I've re-acquired the 2008 Mac Mini I gave to my mother years ago so I can use outdated software without sacrificing being 'up-to-date'. Keeping up to date is money down the drain, it would seem...

I am not much differet in that respect, my daily work MacBook is 2008 model.

Quite happy with old unupdateable software and OS.

You are welcome.
I am not much differet in that respect, my daily work MacBook is 2008 model.
Quite happy with old unupdateable software and OS.


do you mean renaming the binary.icns file in the radial app to radiaL, and then dragging the binary.icns file from max runtime into that same folder? sadly hasn't worked for me yet

@source audio, 
do you mean renaming the binary.icns file in the radial app to radiaL, and then dragging the binary.icns file from max runtime into that same folder? sadly hasn't worked for me yet

Binary file is that executable inside of MacOS FOLDER

Screen shot 2021-06-17 at 1.14.41 PM.png

you rename MaxMSP Runtime to radiaL, replace the one in radial app

no by all means.
Binary file is that executable inside of MacOS FOLDER


you rename MaxMSP Runtime to radiaL, replace the one in radial app
and trash max runtime.


it worked once and now isn't anymore, error message is saying radiaL quit unexpectedly..

thank you, 
it worked once and now isn't anymore, error message is saying radiaL quit unexpectedly..


radiaL is not really supported on new MacOS.

Starting from privileges to write preferences , use audio driver etc.

radiaL is not really supported on new MacOS.
Anything can crash it.
Starting from privileges to write preferences , use audio driver etc.


i restarted the machine and it seems to be working fine now, thanks again

Hi! I am a big fan of the Radial program too! I have been running it on an old Mac, but the machine itself needs some tlc. Is there anyway to run it on a new Mac m1? or what would be the latest possible MacBook/ OS it would run on? thanks so much for all your help!

Hi!  I am a big fan of the Radial program too!   I have been running it on an old Mac, but the machine itself needs some tlc.  Is there anyway to run it on a new Mac m1?  or what would be the latest possible MacBook/ OS it would run on?   thanks so much for all your help!

Radial patch uses some old custom externals that are 32 bit.

That is not going to work on 64bit only systems.

Maybe some Radial user here can report which latest OS it would work on.

One would anyway have to fight with gatekeeper etc,

but I guess Mojave would still do, High Sierra definitely, 

I use many Standalones from 2007 without problems on 10.13

Radial patch uses some old custom externals that are 32 bit.
That is not going to work on 64bit only systems.
Maybe some Radial user here can report which latest OS it would work on.
One would anyway have to fight with gatekeeper etc,
but I guess Mojave would still do, High Sierra definitely, 
I use many Standalones from 2007  without problems on 10.13


Thanks! I've always used a 2010 MacBook Pro running 10.8.5, I was wondering about what OS's would be the latest it can run on....

Thanks!  I've always used a 2010 MacBook Pro running 10.8.5, I was wondering about what OS's would be the latest it can run on....

Hi - I have it running on 10.14.6. It works okay, the only real problem is not being able to open most plugins, so I usually pipe radiaL audio channels into a DAW.

Mid 2012. Must get a newer one sometime :)

@ source audio the saga continues... lol I just bought the exact year laptop and OS, but I am getting this message now, upong trying to install Radial 1.5 Can you help me? much appreciated!

Screen Shot 2021-10-05 at 1.07.16 PM.png

@ source audio  the saga continues... lol    I just bought the exact year laptop and OS, but I am getting this message now, upong trying to install Radial 1.5    Can you help me?  much appreciated!

You can't install radial by running installer package.

Screen Shot 2021-10-06 at 17.57.39.png

show package contents, and try to install radial.pkg only.

here is download link with installed and fixed app

show package contents, and try to install radial.pkg only.
even better extract it using pacifist.
then follow the instructions, or ...
here is download link with installed and fixed app

Hello everyone, I think we should all petition the family to update this super app. its very unique and very creative and nothing like it exists, I've been using since I purchased it in early 00's and still do almost daily, its quirky but works on Mojave 10.4.6. eventually it will need updating or moving to the new M1.. I would happily pay to get it updated, maybe if enough of us ask we can receive ?

Hello everyone, I think we should all petition the family to update this super app. its very unique and very creative and nothing like it exists, I've been using since I purchased it in early 00's and still do almost daily, its quirky but works on Mojave 10.4.6.  eventually it will need updating or moving to the new M1.. I would happily pay to get it updated, maybe if enough of us ask we can receive ? 

its code after all , it doesn't have hardware parts that can't be sourced anymore :)

Hello, Ι found this thread by accident while searching for a radiaL alternative. I did heavy use of this wonderful software. It was my favorite electronic live instrument and it is a pity that has been discontinued. 

If an update comes out, I also would happily pay. I agree with musicmaks@ that nothing like this exists. 

Hello, Ι found this thread by accident while searching for a radiaL alternative. I did heavy use of this wonderful software.  It was my favorite electronic live instrument and it is a pity that  has been discontinued. 
 If an update comes out, I also would happily pay.   I agree with musicmaks@ that nothing like this exists. 


What would be really nice is a Windows version - had that existed we could all still be using it. But yeah, a paid upgrade would be fab. I think it was discontinued due to the existence of Ableton Live, and given Ableton's current situation with Cycling '74, it's unlikely to make a return. A brilliant piece of software for sure.

What would be really nice is a Windows version - had that existed we could all still be using it. But yeah, a paid upgrade would be fab. I think it was discontinued due to the existence of Ableton Live, and given Ableton's current situation with Cycling '74, it's unlikely to make a return.  A brilliant piece of software for sure.

its more funky and fluid, dare I say acid jazz compared to the rigid hard rock of Ableton, please bring it back!!!

Does anybody know if it was written in Max/MSP? I wonder if it's still possible to use in new Mac OS with M1, I bought it also in the early 2000s, and would love to have it back. My favorite software ever.

Read the entire thread, and you will understand

that even that Radial was written in Max,

and also compiled as standalone application,

it will never work on 64 bit or M1 because

Only way to make it work would be that whoever developed it

Read the entire thread, and you will understand
that even that Radial was written in Max,
and also compiled as standalone application,
it will never work on 64 bit or M1 because
of old custom externals.
Only way to make it work would be that whoever developed it
updates the externals.


can we summon up the developer ? how ? who is he/she ?

anyway i was the original developer for radiaL. It was a labor of love for several years while i was working for Cycling '74 (1997-2005). this project was the first time we tried to create an application entirely in the Max/MSP framework that could function as a standalone product. However, as mentioned here, it did use a number of custom C objects. It was quite complex under the hood.

The first release ran only on OS9. Making it run on OSX was a substantial undertaking. After I left C74, other developers worked to keep it updated for a while - but it took a great deal of effort, and there were not many sales, so after some time there was just no way to keep it afloat.

In theory one could re-construct most of the functionality in a pure-MaxMSP context compatible with the current ecosystem, but there are a ton of itty bitty details and moving parts. Which ones would be important, and how many could be left out? And in a broader context - what functionality did radiaL have that modern Ableton does not provide?

Personally, I think it was the overall design and 'feel' that made it fun to use - recreating that would be tricky and a ton of work.

The first release ran only on OS9. Making it run on OSX was a substantial undertaking. After I left C74, other developers worked to keep it updated for a while - but it took a great deal of effort, and there were not many sales, so after some time there was just no way to keep it afloat. 

In theory one could re-construct most of the functionality in a pure-MaxMSP context compatible with the current ecosystem, but there are a ton of itty bitty details and moving parts. Which ones would be important, and how many could be left out? And in a broader context - what functionality did radiaL have that modern Ableton does not provide?  

Personally, I think it was the overall design and 'feel' that made it fun to use - recreating that would be tricky and a ton of work. 

Jhno , thank you ! no really, thank you man!.. there are many things about it that makes it not only fun to use, but incredibly productive, and yes the feel, and feel is everything, that's real magic brother.. you managed the ones and zeros into art!!!! the "circles" with immediate EQ's, and pitch control which can be played, the dope aesthetic of the interface, the colors, just everything , easy to get to, intrigues the senses, tickles the intellect.. I love creatively bashing channels against themselves, testing what works, what doesn't, carving out their place in syncopation , it speaks jazz, happy accidents, creativity... nothing against Ableton but its not the 4x4 rigidness and predictability of it..... the way parts can be looped, sections can be isolated and re arranged , tuned, punched in... or re-recorded quick in to another time signature , and recorded in a completely different structure, real jazz, then quickly eq'd to fit in... nothing is perfect and thats what makes it perfect, the mistakes it invites are celebrations, dont know how you did it... the WTF moments this app has given is like nothing else...I can go on and on and on.. its not just me, many people ive turned on to it over the years were like wtf is this, im talking serious folks in EM and Jazz circles.. if its just ported the way it is, id pull the card out asap, full price paid all over again ? no problem... its a masterpiece in code, its got character not written for the masses. if theres a wishlist from users on what to add, especially with all the new advancements, boom. Firing it up along with Ableton, through midi clock is magic, please think about it, and guys at 74 should wake up, it's one of the best original things they ever let out standalone, unique and original. Sometimes ts not about $, for those in the know know as its the price we all pay for what we love. peace.

Jhno , thank you ! no really, thank you man!.. there are many things about it that makes it not only fun to use, but incredibly productive, and yes the feel, and feel is everything, that's real magic brother.. you managed the ones and zeros into art!!!!  the "circles" with immediate EQ's, and pitch control which can be played, the dope aesthetic of the interface, the colors, just everything , easy to get to, intrigues the senses, tickles the intellect.. I love creatively bashing channels against themselves, testing what works, what doesn't, carving out their place in syncopation , it speaks jazz, happy accidents, creativity... nothing against Ableton but its not the 4x4 rigidness and predictability of it..... the way parts can be looped, sections can be isolated and re arranged , tuned, punched in... or re-recorded quick in to another time signature , and recorded in a completely different structure, real jazz, then quickly eq'd to fit in... nothing is perfect and thats what makes it perfect, the mistakes it invites are celebrations, dont know how you did it... the WTF moments this app has given is like nothing else...I can go on and on and on.. its not just me, many people ive turned on to it over the years were like wtf is this, im talking serious folks in EM and Jazz circles.. if its just ported the way it is, id pull the card out asap, full price paid all over again ? no problem... its a masterpiece in code, its got character not written for the masses. if theres a wishlist from users on what to add, especially with all the new advancements, boom. Firing it up along with Ableton, through midi clock is magic, please think about it, and guys at 74 should wake up, it's one of the best original things they ever let out standalone, unique and original. Sometimes ts not about $, for those in the know know as its the price we all pay for what we love. peace.

OMG, thanks so much Jhno for developing RadiaL back then! I absolutely loved working on it and finished couple of albums just using RadiaL. Something I’m missing most in Ableton is the transposition grid and dice shuffle combining with sync in between the channels and EQ. Transposition used some beautiful algorithms which skip or repeat some part of the loop - I’ve tried copying this kind of grid on max/msp but didn’t succeed, unfortunately.

Furthermore, as much as I prefer desktop software for making music radiaL would make an amazing iOS app, with the circles and touch control, etc.

I still use radial in all my albums to this day. I like to think of it as a secret weapon, because so few even know about it... Maybe we can release a secret edition, just for this crew. lol

I reached out to JHNO, a few years back on Linked In, just to say hi! & thank him for this piece of genius software. Not sure if you remember me John.

I still use radial in all my albums to this day.  I like to think of it as a secret weapon, because so few even know about it... Maybe we can release a secret edition, just for this crew. lol

I reached out to JHNO, a few years back on Linked In, just to say hi! & thank him for this piece of genius software.   Not sure if you remember me John.

Radial was my favorite software for improvisation and live performance, thanks a lot Jhno for your excellent software!!! 

The first thing that I like about it, is it's immediacy. Cutting a loop in several pieces and using the XY Time-Pitch algorithms was for me the starting point for endless experimentation and compositional creative process. The way that manipulates the sample direction is immediate, fast and musical. In combination with pitch, the results are amazing. To me this is the core of Radial.

Moreover, it has amazing EQ which adds much color to the sound instantly. I remember some of my friends saying about its nice sound.

Ι have use Ableton Live, NI Reaktor, Octatrack and other software and hardware but I have not found anything similar about how it handles the samples and the sound result. Radial is more fluid and more musical for improvisation and live performance. but also as an instrument to record in a DAW.

I would love to see Radial alive again!!!

 Radial was my favorite software for improvisation and live performance, thanks a lot Jhno for your excellent software!!! 

The first thing that I like about it, is  it's immediacy. Cutting  a loop in several pieces and using the XY  Time-Pitch algorithms was for me the starting point for endless experimentation and compositional creative process. The way that manipulates the sample direction is immediate, fast  and musical. In combination with pitch, the results are amazing.  To me this is the core of Radial.
Moreover, it has  amazing EQ which adds much color to the sound instantly. I remember some of my friends saying about its nice sound.

Ι have use Ableton Live, NI Reaktor, Octatrack  and other software and hardware  but I have not found anything similar about how it handles the samples and the sound result. Radial is more fluid and more musical for improvisation and live performance. but also as an instrument to record in a DAW. 

I would also love to see Radial alive again. It's truly a unique, cool software for music production and sound design.

Sure I do! Thanks for all stories and memories, I'm really glad you all appreciated the software.

> I would love to see Radial alive again!!!

Just to put this issue to bed, there is no way that radiaL can be resurrected from its original code. It is impossible. C74 was heroic in keeping it going as long as they did. It was simply not created in a way that would be possible to maintain. Of course that's my fault, but that's the way it is.

Good news on that front - the EQ used only cascade~ and filtergraph~. I may have fussed with the UI a little bit but those two objects support everything you need.

Note that radiaL always had a peak limiter object (still available in Max/MSP as limi~) across the outputs. I think that this was a part of the sound, too.

> Transposition used some beautiful algorithms which skip or repeat some part of the loop

Yeah basically I never liked the sound of granulated time shifting much - especially back then! So I tried to keep everything 'varispeed' style: the pitch and time of playback were always linked. However with the grid, you could change the speed of progress through the loop. At each division of the beat, the audio would just skip to the corresponding location in the audio - skipping forward for faster playback, skipping backward for slower playback.

This was implemented in C, but I think it would be possible in pure Max/MSP. Crossfades are always a pain, but it's been done over and over under the granular synthesis topic. I guess that radiaL did use a form of granular synthesis after all - just a very coarse, quantized version.

Remember that radiaL expected all rhythmic material to be cut precisely to the beat. That way, when you loaded a sound, it could figure out the best playback speed based on the length of the audio file and the current BPM.

Well we did make Looperverse, which is still available in the App Store.

And if you miss the round waveforms, you should certainly check out Loopy Pro.

Just to put this issue to bed, there is no way that radiaL can be resurrected from its original code. It is impossible. C74 was heroic in keeping it going as long as they did. It was simply not created in a way that would be possible to maintain. Of course that's my fault, but that's the way it is. 

Good news on that front - the EQ used only cascade~ and filtergraph~. I may have fussed with the UI a little bit but those two objects support everything you need. 

Note that radiaL always had a peak limiter object (still available in Max/MSP as limi~) across the outputs. I think that this was a part of the sound, too. 

This was implemented in C, but I think it would be possible in pure Max/MSP. Crossfades are always a pain, but it's been done over and over under the granular synthesis topic. I guess that radiaL did use a form of granular synthesis after all - just a very coarse, quantized version. 

Remember that radiaL expected all rhythmic material to be cut precisely to the beat. That way, when you loaded a sound, it could figure out the best playback speed based on the length of the audio file and the current BPM. 

Well we did make Looperverse, which is still available in the App Store. 

And if you miss the round waveforms, you should certainly check out Loopy Pro. 

Jhno , well we all tried but it is what it is )) I've got 2 Macs w Mojave, will keep one just for radiaL.. care to share about any new stuff on the horizon ? thnx

I just stumbled upon this thread. I still have RadiaL, but haven't been able to use it since it won't run on newer Macs.

If there were a way to recreate this in iOS I'm sure it would sell well.

I just stumbled upon this thread. I still have RadiaL, but haven't been able to use it since it won't run on newer Macs.  

If there were a way to recreate this in iOS I'm sure it would sell well. 

Just stumbled across this thread and wanted to second all the wonderful praise above, which is put so much more eloquently than I ever could. Many years ago I used to use Radial all the time, it became like an extension of my fingers, and I could use it to improvise with musicians in a way I've never been able to do since. Then I bought a new machine as the old one was kaput, and Radial was suddenly gone. I couldn't live without it, so I had to buy an old Mac purely to run Radial, then I bought another one as I was terrified the first one would stop working :-). They're both flaky old machines though and I eventually retired them to the loft, but I've spent all these years looking for something to replace Radial and nothing has ever come close (Samplr on the iPad had some potential, but it still had a long way to go). Anyway, cue a fortnight ago, and I sparked up the old machines, and my creativity, productivity and enthusiasm are through the roof! Thanks JNHO!

Just stumbled across this thread and wanted to second all the wonderful praise above, which is put so much more eloquently than I ever could. Many years ago I used to use Radial all the time, it became like an extension of my fingers, and I could use it to improvise with musicians in a way I've never been able to do since. Then I bought a new machine as the old one was kaput, and Radial was suddenly gone.  I couldn't live without it, so I had to buy an old Mac purely to run Radial, then I bought another one as I was terrified the first one would stop working :-). They're both flaky old machines though and I eventually retired them to the loft, but I've spent all these years looking for something to replace Radial and nothing has ever come close (Samplr on the iPad had some potential, but it still had a long way to go). Anyway, cue a fortnight ago, and I sparked up the old machines, and my creativity, productivity and enthusiasm are through the roof! Thanks JNHO!

RadiaL - Max/Msp patch