RNBO and Eurorack
Hey folks, I am super excited about RNBO! I am very interested in its applications in eurorack.
There are in fact a couple of eurorack modules already out there that allow you to load ~gen patches on them, Rebel Technology's Owl, Befaco's Lich, and Electrosmith's Daisey patch. The ability to build for pisound creates lots of new exciting options. I have some questions...
Does RNBO support pre-existing ~gen export that these eurorack modules above are using?
Does anyone know of a pisound in eurorack form? Ideally one with ports, knobs, etc.
What is the minimum raspi hardware requirements to run RNBO?
Does anyone here know anything about RNBO?
None of these manufacturers have announced RNBO export support yet, but the our Raspberry Pi runner is open source (on our Github) and could be adapted for other platforms. It's possible some of the Raspberry Pi based modules that exist could simply run our disk image, but it would likely require some hacking to get I/O and controls working.
We'll be looking into expanding the range of export targets in the future, and we are happy to help out device creators who wish to create their own RNBO Export support.
Hi @anthony,
Apologies for the delay here, as there's a lot going on with this release.
We've started a RNBO Export Platform FAQ that hopefully answers several of your questions.
A few of the platforms you've mentioned e.g. OWL, Daisy fall more into the "Bare Metal" category, where it may be more work to get going at this point. However as @andrew points out, we're excited to keep making it easier for more and more individuals and platforms to build integrations for a wider variety of hardware than we can officially support with our efforts alone.
Since RNBO uses a different API for code integration than Gen, existing bindings will not work without modification. Even though RNBO supports gen patchers it is a completely re-written new system that translates and supports gen code to run and operate in this new system.
Pi Sound with rPi3 or higher should work great!
Thanks for your interest and can't wait to see what you come up with RNBO!
it looks like the bela board is going to be supported, too:
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https://github.com/giuliomoro/rnbo.example.bela
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https://learn.bela.io/using-bela/languages/rnbo-experimental/
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some things already said about the price tag here:
https://cycling74.com/forums/rnbo-1-0-now-available-bundled-with-max-8-5
thus I cannot react to this posting (today):
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https://forum.bela.io/d/2632-rnbo-cycling-74-max-c
bela_robert:
"If anyone is trying this out we'd love some feedback on the process and documentation. We recommend running the projects with a block size 128."
Bela and Daisy exports would probably be enough reason for me to get RNBO! :-)
>Bela and Daisy exports would probably be enough reason for me to get RNBO! :-)
you can already do that without RNBO... at least Daisy takes gen~ files, right?
>at least Daisy takes gen~ files, right?
It does. You have to build a binary to flash but the flash process is super easy. I use Eurorack-blocks to build the binary.
Yes I was thinking of buying a Daisy myself. I hope the manufacturer adds RNBO support it would be nice to have additional patcher support.
Given that Graham is one of the Daisy people and just released a book (which is great btw) on Gen that mentions using it in RNBO, i would be very surprised if we don't see a Daisy exporter in the not too distant future!
@Andrew/@Joshua , my experience is.. it'll be open source developers who are most likely to add support for RNBO to other projects (which are open sourced)
yet, when I asked for a RNBO license to add support for my (free) open source project, I got a bit fat NO.
C74 should help us, get wider adoption.. its in their interest, as OUR users will need to buy RNBO to utilise our RNBO support.
Im excited by the possibilities RNBO offers , to allow my (non developer) users to extend my software by creating modules using RNBO.
I've added support on the SSP, but it wouldn't have happened if it weren't for one of my generous supporters offering me support. thats not going to happen for many open source projects!
I think C74 didnt realise a simple fact. Developers (like me) not the target market of RNBO...I write in C++ natively, Im just the ENABLER for my (non dev) users, they are C74 target market.
I fear, if C74 fail to understand that, the RNBO adoption beyond the max faithful is going to be limited.
that in turn makes me question rnbo.
I contribute to/own many open source projects, and have considered adding rnbo support to these,
but why spend the (potentially) significant dev/support effort... if its doing to be a very niche thing.
(ok, no doubt C74 will give away RNBO as part of Max 9, but doesn't pay to be an early adopter then ;) )
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tl;dr; other companies recognise the (voluntary) work of open source developers, and help us, I think it'd be in C74 interest to do the same.
@thetechnobear
I hear your concerns, and am glad to hear that your users supported your efforts in this way. Thank you for your work building an integration for Percussa SSP. I'm sure many Percussa SSP users will find this valuable.
I would like to point out that RNBO's trial mode permits exporting source code from any existing patch as well as edits to a patcher, simply no saving of the RNBO patch.
So for developers who are not actually using the RNBO platform for creative work, but simply building a bridge for their users, the trial mode code export should be a workable solution for building platform support to integrate the exported code.
the trial mode code export should be a workable solution for building platform support to integrate the exported code.
sure, for initial dev its fine... but once you want to start testing out different use-cases, this becomes problematic quickly.. similarly if you want provide your users with examples, you cannot do this.
e.g. I modified the demo patch to use signal aka cv instead of midi, tried adding @comment to in/out to see if I could pick up within C++ (you can't - arghhh!)...
without saving, Id have wasted valuable (personal) dev time, re-writing patches.
and of course, mid term, to support you are bound to have to create test patches to try to find RNBO issues that users are encountering.
as I said, I think RNBO could be a great way for projects to allow non-devs to contribute.
but I think the current pricing strategy is going to make that difficult for smaller open source projects.
... after all, your not going to support something that only benefits a very small user base, esp. if its going to cost you near 400 euros.
but its C74 choice, depends on their target market, for some it may not be an issue.
Hey folks, I was wondering if there was an update from Cycling74 as to when there will be RNBO support for any existing Max Eurorack platforms like Rebel Technology's Owl, Befaco's Lich, and Electrosmith's Daisey patch?
It seems strange that RNBO does not support dedicated Max eurorack platforms. Especially when there is no real Max eurorack options out there. Buying a raspi 4 and exporting my RNBO patch does not come close to being able to have my RNBO patch working in my eurorack, running on optimized dsp audio hardware.
Can we please get a response on this?
Hi Anthony, have you looked at Electrosmith Daisy's products? The have a couple of eurorack modules available. The C74 oopsy~ package lets you quickly and easily convert gen~ patches to the ESD patch modules and then you just plug it into your rack and go.
https://www.electro-smith.com/daisy
There is also some support on using oopsy~ on their forum.
https://forum.electro-smith.com/
If you read my posts above, I am asking for Cycling 74 to add support to RNBO for Daisy patch. This would be better because it is easier to create with and you are not forced to exporting ~gen only implementations.
Plus I can take the same RNBO patch export it to VST or Daisy patch.
Just checking in again, any progress on RNBO support for Daisy patch or other eurorack modules? Or does anyone know of any new raspi based eurorack modules that can run RNBO?
Maybe Santa’s elves might be able to help?
Just checking in again, any progress on RNBO support for Daisy patch or other eurorack modules? Or does anyone know of any new raspi based eurorack modules that can run RNBO?
Surely this should be in the works right? The most powerful application of RNBO would be eurorack!
This isn't RPI based but, Bela has RNBO support and some modular options: https://shop.bela.io/collections/modular
Thanks for the info Alex, it looks like there is indeed RNBO support for Bela...
https://learn.bela.io/using-bela/languages/rnbo/
https://forum.bela.io/d/2632-rnbo-cycling-74-max-c
The Bela board leaves much to be desired when compared to a Daisy Patch, when it comes to integrating in to a eurorack environment. But I will investigate and research what options there are.
Any update on this? Seems like it would be a fairly simple thing for cycling 74 to respond to after 3 years. This is the one thing that's kept me from getting RNBO, I have no interest in getting into Gen so I I could easily port patches from Max directly to the Patch Init / daisy that would be amazing. You would think they would explore / push this aspect as just from my time on Modwiggler I know there are bunch of eurorack heads who also Max and the tools are already there so some support here would be nice.
Agreed - RNBO is great for making my own externals that function inside Max, but it seems like hardware options for eurorack and otherwise are pretty limited, and a lot more options exist for the open source platforms - Nebulae v2 for example.
The Raspberry Pi integration seems quite fluid - it would be great to see that sort of development workflow on other hardware.