Serious Bugs in the vst~ Object

Max For Livebugs/issues
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Darling Lee

While using Max for Live in Ableton Live, I discovered some serious bugs in the vst~ object in newer versions of Max. These bugs do not occur in Ableton Live 11 Suite (which comes with Max version 8.5.8). Similarly, replacing the built-in Max in Ableton Live 12 Suite with Max 8.5.8 or using an external Max 8.5.8 in Ableton Live's preferences also avoids these bugs. Therefore, it can be confirmed that these bugs originate from Max rather than Ableton Live. The details are as follows:

  1. When a plugin is loaded into the vst~ object (using Kontakt as an example, versions 6/7/8 were tested, with VST3 on Windows and VST3/AU on MacOS), and after loading a sound library in Kontakt, inputting changes to data such as CC controllers into the vst~ object consumes a large amount of CPU resources. In comparison, when Kontakt is loaded directly on an Ableton Live track and a sound library is loaded in Kontakt, the CPU usage is around 12% when passing CC1 parameter changes. However, when Kontakt is loaded in the vst~ object in Max for Live and a sound library is loaded in Kontakt, the CPU usage spikes to around 106% when passing CC1 parameter changes!

  2. When a plugin is loaded into the vst~ object (using Kontakt as an example, versions 6/7/8 were tested, with VST3 on Windows and VST3/AU on MacOS), and after loading a sound library in Kontakt, saving the Live Set and reopening it results in the previously loaded sound library in Kontakt being cleared. This means Kontakt reverts to its default state with no sound library loaded. This requires reloading the sound library in Kontakt within the vst~ object every time a Live Set containing the Max for Live plugin with the vst~ object is opened. Note that this issue does not occur with the same Max for Live plugin in Ableton Live 11 Suite. Replacing the built-in Max with an older version in Ableton Live 12 Suite also avoids this issue.

I attempted to simply replace the vst~.mxo/vst~.mxe64 files in the latest Ableton Live Suite's Max with those from Max 8.5.8, which seemed to somewhat optimize the high CPU usage issue. However, the problem of not being able to recall the sound library loading state in Kontakt remains unresolved.

Please investigate and fix these bugs!