sidechain phasing
Hi can anyone help me with phasing problems in my mixer I've built in Max, I'm sending a channel to a sidechain to beef things up and it's phasing. How do I fix this? I'm sending it with send~ and both channels have fx on them although it phases without.
I've tried using delay~ to align the signals but I don't really have much of an idea by how many samples I should be aiming to delay them.
Is there any way I could analyse how much the signal is lagging by? Or any other object to create a solution?
Big thank you if anyone gets back.
cheers.
ok i've checked a phasor out on the channels and the send channel is phase inverted!
how or why I have no idea?! anyone know why?
is there an object to just flip this round?
cheers again!
*~ -1. ? gonna try that tomorrow, still dont know why its inverted.
are you sure it is "inverted"?
you are using send (where is the tilda on windows? lol?), that delays the signal, that makes that it is out of phase.
-110
ah ok now i see yoyu already know this.
well, just use send and receive on the other channel, too, then it will continue to work when the vectorsize changes.
-110
well that'd mean doing it on every channel, maybe i should just use cables would that sort it? it'd make a messy patch more messy but hey.
if you use send send/recieve (msp) to sidechain channel 1 into channel 7, and you do the same to sidechain channel 1 with channel 7, you have won nothing, because a loop is a loop, even when delayed. ;)
or in other words: why you use send anyway?
I would have thought it would be obvious that I'm doing something with the send channel otherwise what would be the point?
i think i would have to see to understand.
there are 2 channels, and you want to use one of them as sidehcain for the other one. why do you want to break ths singal chain here? is there an insert effect already in channel 1?
its a whole mixing desk with inserts on every channel, 8 channels then 2 return tracks which also have inserts, its all sweet, just the phasing on the returns, Ill get on it and and cable them up I guess if thats the problem, the send~ objects were just to make it a bit more tidy. Thanks.
aha, well, did you try to use non-msp s/r ? then your system is latency free - and this should solve those issues.
Send~/receive~ objects may or may not introduce a signal vector worth of delay depending on if they are being used in a feedback routing or in a separate patch. (example: make a sub patch, connect the inlet to a send~ foo and connect receive~ foo to the outlet. The signal will be delayed by one vector)
Please note that this delay is a complete pain to anticipate, so if your signal path is guaranteed to be feedback free, you can just use send/receive as Roman indicates and not worry about it.
if you'd like to measure the delay, or the relation of the two signals, you could, in a first simple step, set up a scope~ as a vector display:
just connect one signal to the left and the other to the right inlet.
In a next step, if that doesn't help, you could turn to cross-correlation.
I don't know how complex your patch is, I guess it's faster to go about that problem by debugging, trying to understand what happens. but if you'd like to measure, these two options would help.
To be honest I wasn't sure exactly what they meant by that, do you mean to say that send and recieve can carry the signal over, or route it as it were?
thats bizzarre if thats the case, i've never heard anything about that in any of the stuff I've read on the program. I'm on 5, I saw 6 and it looks way too glossy, I imagine 7 is even more so. I guess I'm missing out on all the extras, but I love 5.
There is a subpatch, however I'd rather not risk using the tilde s and r's if there a little unpredictable.
I did set up the scope when I was trying to solve the problem with a delay~ and couldn't line them up for beans.
there is a lot about the program which you can read nowhere - or the other way round.
you can mix 10 audio channels with symbols and a jitter matrix and send all of that to an other place using only one connection or one s/r.
it is just not "officially" supported. (but so is expr and if, when i am not wrong).
these features are kind of a compensation for all the things which are documented but dont work.
-110
this worked perfectly if anyone is wondering, and thank you all!