fraction

After months of works, and borned from a cross residency in artistic research between IRCAM and SAT Montreal, i have released xp4l (xp for live), a fully integrated solution designed to expand with simplicity Ableton Live potential toward the field of spatial sound design or performance . The goal of xp4l is to provide Ableton users with a flexible and simplified environment to create 3d audio projects.

It is made of a free m4l (max-for-live) suit consisting of 5 devices and a standalone application that users have to purchase.

, a max-msp object library unique for its ability to simulate virtual acoustic spaces. Therefore, 

is intended for past, new or future users of the 

in the max-for-live environment through a flexible format by users was made complex, and this fact deprived the majority of creators from taking advantage of this incredible tool. 

provides Ableton users with a solution that will alleviate this problem.

xp is super dynamic and flexible, comes with literally a lot of functionalities, to name a few : supports all system up to 62 channels out (ableton limitation), all spatialization algorithm (vbap, hoa, binaural etc), a generative engine to animate sources based on jitter library, and cherry on the cake, a very easy way to record multichannel stream from Ableton.

https://forum.ircam.fr/article/detail/xp4l-a-flexible-spatial-sound-system-for-ableton-live/

After months of works, and borned from a cross residency in artistic research between IRCAM and SAT Montreal, i have released xp4l (xp for live),  a fully integrated solution designed to expand with simplicity Ableton Live potential toward the field of spatial sound design or performance . The goal of xp4l is to provide Ableton users with a flexible and simplified environment to create 3d audio projects. 

It is made of a free m4l (max-for-live) suit consisting of 5 devices and a standalone application that users have to purchase.
The project is partly based on Ircam Spat library, a max-msp object library unique for its ability to simulate virtual acoustic spaces. Therefore, xp4l is intended for past, new or future users of the Spat library. Although possible before xp4l existed, accessing the library from Ableton Live in the max-for-live environment through a flexible format by users was made complex, and this fact deprived the majority of creators from taking advantage of this incredible tool. xp4l provides Ableton users with a solution that will alleviate this problem.  

xp is super dynamic and flexible,  comes with literally a lot of functionalities, to name a few : supports all system up to 62 channels out (ableton limitation), all spatialization algorithm (vbap, hoa, binaural etc), a generative engine to animate sources based on jitter library, and cherry on the cake, a very easy way to record multichannel stream from Ableton.

More info www.xp4l.com
or
https://cycling74.com/projects/xp4l
or
https://forum.ircam.fr/article/detail/xp4l-a-flexible-spatial-sound-system-for-ableton-live/ 

Hi everyone,
a little self-promo :)
After months of works, and borned from a cross residency in artistic research between IRCAM and SAT ... 

xp4l-for-3d-audio-and-immersive-sound-creation

Capture d’écran 2022-11-10 à 14.58.31.png

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjWYBCkNcKY

Xp is now supporting Ableton live 11.2.6 / Mac os inte & m1

Instalation tutorial :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjWYBCkNcKY 

xp.engine : speakers layout user library extended

xp.engine : configuration panel - monitoring hide/show

xp.engine : record/play interface hide/show

bug fixes for all devices when quiting Ableton (maxmsp api)

xp.room : bug for custom parameters recall

xp.engine : bug fixes for setwidth for configure/record intefaces

XP comes now with 7 max for live devices and a standalone. 

It supports mac (intel & M1), and windows 10&11, Ableton 11.3.2, and uses Ircam spat library 5.3.1

Please subscribe to the youtube channel where we publish regularly tutorials. 

The last one is about the head-tracking, a feature embedded in XP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2ab_Ojk9AM 

And follow the version history update on Ircam Forum dedicated page

https://discussion.forum.ircam.fr/c/xp4l/467

A quick update on XP:
The current version of XP is 1.1402. 

XP comes now with  7 max for live devices and a standalone. 
It supports mac (intel & M1), and windows 10&11,  Ableton 11.3.2,  and uses Ircam spat library 5.3.1


Please subscribe to the youtube channel where we publish regularly tutorials. 
https://www.youtube.com/@xp4l
The last one is about the head-tracking, a feature embedded in XP:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2ab_Ojk9AM 
And follow the version history update on Ircam Forum dedicated page
https://discussion.forum.ircam.fr/c/xp4l/467 

Hi Fraction, I've been using your amazing program for a while now, it's fantastic.

However, I need to understand one thing: I am participating in an ircam tender which requires an ambisonic composition exported in this way:

Ambisonics compositions are requested in 6th or 7th order (49 or 64 channels), half-sphere or fullsphere Ambisonics format, with the following specifications:

− Single multichannel WAV file (Wave64, 49-ch. or 64-ch.)

− Quantization: 24 bit (16 bits are accepted during selection phase – file size optimization and

Now, I don't understand, can I do this directly with your program?

How do I get a file as requested by them?

Ambisonics compositions are requested in 6th or 7th order (49 or 64 channels), half-sphere or fullsphere Ambisonics format, with the following specifications:
− Single multichannel WAV file (Wave64, 49-ch. or 64-ch.)
− Sample rate: 48 kHz
− Quantization: 24 bit (16 bits are accepted during selection phase – file size optimization and
internet upload ease)
− Channel ordering: ACN (AmbiX)
− Normalization: SN3D (AmbiX)

Now, I don't understand, can I do this directly with your program?
How do I get a file as requested by them?

channel order is as simple as it sounds, and normalisation (max gain for components relative to 0th order peak) could be left to third party plug-ins. (at least i would, bc i never understood the specs.)

beside those things, which are only assumptions over the content, ambi stuff is usually just a normal audio file, which is why they request it in the interchange format wave64 - and not some fringe group format such as "amb" or files for a specific hardware/software combination, which usually need custom meta data junk.

your question raises counter questions such as "how do you mix" and "how do you listen" anyway. 

full sphere setups are quite rare in living room studios and so i assume you use headphones, which would mean that you already have the right encoder at the end of your process, no?

in either case you might be better off with a DAW and object-based mixing for HOA.

but it is absolutely possible in max, starting with the fact that max also can host VST/AU in cases of emergency.

your question raises counter questions such as "how do you mix" and "how do you listen" anyway. 
full sphere setups are quite rare in living room studios and so i assume you use headphones, which would mean that you already have the right encoder at the end of your process, no?

in either case you might be better off with a DAW and object-based mixing for HOA. 

thanks for your post - we have also a specific 

which seems more appropriate, but i m happy to answer here as well.

The format required here reach the limit of what is possible in Xp and Ableton. Ableton supports only 64 channels routing in max for live. As we use 2 channels for binaural rendering, it leaves actually a maximum of 62 channels out as a maximum out supported for XP. 

In your case, you are requested to provide either a 49 or 64 channels wave file corresponding to the encoded ambisonics stream for 6th or 7th order. Given what i said before, you cant provide a 7th order file.

But you could provide a 6th order wave file. To do that you have to work inside a dummy speaker layout template made of enough loudpseaker that the encoded stream is 6th order : from 49 to 62 loudspeaker template, Xp will set automatically a 6th order hoa stream that you can record

It's not ideal for now, but Xp has been designed for live context, where you set your project that corresponds to the concrete speaker layout you are working in. It also secured that the content has been designed for such set up. In the future, you will be able to set the order output you want to encode to whatever your current speaker template, but be aware that a content designed on a 16 hp array, even if ambisonics makes that possible, might not sound as you want if you deploy it onto a 64 loudspeaker array like.

Anyways, in short, to create your content, create a fake dome like template using xp.lsd. Create a preset, and configure your project with this preset, using hoa3d as spat type. Then go in record module in xp.engine, and record the hoa stream.

Look here, we have selected a factory preset made of 49 loudspeaker. When recording the hoa stream, it will record a 49 channel encoded stream - see hoa record bellow.

Capture d’écran 2023-11-08 à 11.41.41.png

I would advice to create another template than this one that has under horizon loudspeaker. Try xp.lsd, and reach us if you cant manage this, we will help

Record module : set record the hoa stream.

Capture d’écran 2023-11-08 à 11.42.49.png

The rest of the requirement seems fine on XP, as it uses Spat convention. You will likely get the right ACN / SN3D.

My advice here, would be to use XP to generate contents (you record sections etc), but edit the whole piece in reaper, as Ableton still doesnt support multichannel audio file.

Working just in real time might limit your expression/ideas.

thanks for your post - we have also a specific thread on ircam forum  which seems more appropriate, but i m happy to answer here as well. 

The format required here reach the limit of what is possible in Xp and Ableton. Ableton supports only 64 channels routing in max for live. As we use 2 channels for binaural rendering, it leaves actually a maximum of 62 channels out as a maximum out supported for XP. 

In your case, you are requested to provide either a 49 or 64 channels wave file corresponding to the encoded ambisonics stream for 6th or 7th order. Given what i said before,  you cant provide a 7th order file. 

The rest of the requirement seems fine on XP, as it uses Spat convention. You will likely get the right ACN / SN3D. 

My advice here, would be to use XP to generate contents (you record sections etc), but edit the whole piece in reaper, as Ableton still doesnt support multichannel audio file. 

Thanks so much Frac! Everything you described was exactly what I was doing, thanks also to watching the rest of your videos on the YouTube channel.

I'm currently working with that 49 channel preset, which is also a bit close to a dome setting, but I wasn't sure if it would be good.

I also tried to create a speaker setup with xp.lsd but found it to be quite a long process, and unfortunately I only have 3 days left to finish the composition and send it on time.

I thought I'd finish working with this 49 channel preset and send it like this. Do you think the yield is very different then in a spherical dome?

So, once the composition is finished, all I need to do is export the wave file from the "master", leaving the HOA3D settings and that's it?

Thanks so much Frac! Everything you described was exactly what I was doing, thanks also to watching the rest of your videos on the YouTube channel.
I'm currently working with that 49 channel preset, which is also a bit close to a dome setting, but I wasn't sure if it would be good.
I also tried to create a speaker setup with xp.lsd but found it to be quite a long process, and unfortunately I only have 3 days left to finish the composition and send it on time.

P.S.
So, once the composition is finished, all I need to do is export the wave file from the "master", leaving the HOA3D settings and that's it?
Thanks again

Ah, currently I don't need to recorder. all sounds come from recordings already made or plug in.

ah, you posted the question in the wrong thread, that explains a lot.

xp4l, a new 3d audio system for Ableton live