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Real Time Pitch to Midi 1.0 - Capture.amxd

A complete M4L blockhead here, hi. I have this audio to midi in realtime -plugin, which works almost perfectly, but it won't play two times the same note without my playing another note in between. So my guess is that I'd need to insert some sort of note-off behavior / note repeat rule / re-triggering box somewhere in MaxForLive editing tree. I have Ableton 9 / Max 7. This is the only plugin that I have been able to (almost) use. I'm an acoustic musician and need this for live performances.

I've tried contacting the developer, but since it's a free plugin, seems like he doesn't (understandably) wish to waste his time on it. Looks like I'm on my own. As far as I can understand, it's a very cleverly made plugin, except for this bug. So I thought maybe it's ok to ask here?

Like I said, I know nnnothing. Yet I feel that a more experienced brain would solve this in a minute. Anyone feeling like helping me out?

A complete M4L blockhead here, hi. I have this audio to midi in realtime -plugin, which works almost perfectly, but it won't play two times the same note without my playing another note in between. So my guess is that I'd need to insert some sort of note-off behavior / note repeat rule / re-triggering box somewhere in MaxForLive editing tree. I have Ableton 9 / Max 7. This is the only plugin that I have been able to (almost) use. I'm an acoustic musician and need this for live performances.

I've tried contacting the developer, but since it's a free plugin, seems like he doesn't (understandably) wish to waste his time on it. Looks like I'm on my own. As far as I can understand, it's a very cleverly made plugin, except for this bug. So I thought maybe it's ok to ask here?

Like I said, I know nnnothing. Yet I feel that a more experienced brain would solve this in a minute. Anyone feeling like helping me out?


audio-to-midi-plugin-won't-play-same-note-twice-in-a-row-help-to-edit-with-m4l

How to solve a problem of an unknown plugin ?

Yes... Thought I'd ask first. Added the plugin in the first post. Thanks!

Hi there! That does sound like a tricky issue. Have you tried looking for solutions online? There are plenty of resources for Max for Live users that could help you with this. You can also reach out to 

Hi there! That does sound like a tricky issue. Have you tried looking for solutions online? There are plenty of resources for Max for Live users that could help you with this. You can also reach out to assignment writers online for some assistance. Hope this helps!

From first look I see the problem, this "clever" thing is only detecting

pitch, and not level and so possible attack, velocity ...

If one removes change object, it will go nuts.

image.png

From first look I see the problem, this "clever" thing is only detecting
pitch, and not level and so possible attack, velocity ...
It only outputs note numbers.
If one removes change object, it will go nuts.
How do you use it at all to play notes ?


It has a second part, the "receiver", that goes to a midi track. This one, "capture", goes to an audio track. I plug in my microphone, play my acoustic instrument, the capturer recognizes the notes and converts them into midi signals. And so I can use live audio effects in real-time with my acoustic instrument. I didn't include the receiver plugin. as this one has the problem: one needs to be able to play the same note twice in a row. There are other nearly similar audio>midi plugin combinations, but this one is the best I've found so far.

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anyway to fix your problem, you need to reset change object.

either add and connect yellow, or blue objects to 

The difference is, yellow one resets it when retune has no detected note,

I find it honestly quite unefficient...
anyway to fix your problem, you need to reset change object.



either add and connect yellow, or blue objects to set -1 message.
The difference is, yellow one resets it when retune has no detected note,
blue one AFTER median value.


Thanks for the very clear instructions and all the help! I tried first with the blues, then yellows, then a version with both lines of boxes, just to see if it improves the result (pic from version both, looks correct to me). All versions seemed to improve the situation slightly, giving me a second note at least sometimes, but way more often not. I tried changing note lengths, note attack settings, swapping midi instruments, etc. - no change. But, when literally hammering my mallets in despair I noticed that perhaps it's more a sensitivity issue: with VERY loud instrument-destroying hits I do get repeated notes most of the time. The first-hit notes are very sensitive: it's enough just to place the mallet gently on the key, but to get that same note to repeat I have to become Thor.

Could there be a way to add a command to lower the repeated-note threshold / increase sensitivity to the first-note level? I'm sorry if I'm asking dumb questions - this is all new to me. Your help is much appreciated!

screenshot-02.png

Thanks for the very clear instructions and all the help! I tried first with the blues, then yellows, then a version with both lines of boxes, just to see if it improves the result (pic from version both, looks correct to me).  All versions seemed to improve the situation slightly, giving me a second note at least sometimes, but way more often not. I tried changing note lengths, note attack settings, swapping midi instruments, etc. - no change. But, when literally hammering my mallets in despair I noticed that perhaps it's more a sensitivity issue: with VERY loud instrument-destroying hits I do get repeated notes most of the time. The first-hit notes are very sensitive: it's enough just to place the mallet gently on the key, but to get that same note to repeat I have to become Thor.

Could there be a way to add a command to lower the repeated-note threshold / increase sensitivity to the first-note level? I'm sorry if I'm asking dumb questions - this is all new to me. Your help is much appreciated! 

In case you have not enough gain, connect both plugin~ inputs

start with 2 - that's 6db boost, increase if not enough

In case you have not enough gain, connect both plugin~ inputs
and add some gain
start with 2 - that's 6db boost, increase if not enough


..and yes, you're right: this may not be the most advanced plugin out there. But with my outdated system (can't afford to buy a new computer that'd allow me to update the programs) this is the only one I have been able to get at least some sort of sound from - most plugins today seem to require Live 10-11. I'd pay for a more advanced plugin but have yet to find a compatible one.

..and yes, you're  right: this may not be the most advanced plugin out there. But with my outdated system (can't afford to buy a new computer that'd allow me to update the programs) this is the only one I have been able to get at least some sort of sound from - most plugins today seem to require Live 10-11. I'd pay for a more advanced plugin but have yet to find a compatible one.

you could make much simpler one, but much better working one even using fzero~ .

What instrument do you use for audio-midi ? 

you could make much simpler one, but much better working one even using fzero~ .
check fzero help file.
What instrument do you use for audio-midi ? 
And which OS ?


I'm on Mac, OS X El Capitan. version 10.11.6. I play a few instuments, but the one I'm expanding into live audio effects resembles a marimba or a wooden xylofon, if that helps to imagine it. A diatonic balafon with rich under- and overtones, so the ability to choose my output notes/scales is a must. All the keys have separate contact mics, so the incoming signal is strong and even.

I'm on Mac, OS X El Capitan. version 10.11.6. I play a few  instuments, but the one I'm expanding into live audio effects resembles a marimba or a wooden xylofon, if that helps to imagine it. A diatonic balafon with rich under- and overtones, so the ability to choose my output notes/scales is a must. All the keys have separate contact mics, so the incoming signal is strong and even.

there are quite few fast pitch detectors, in case of

marimba, wooden xylo etc I wonder if one shot samples would work better.

I mean instead of using measured audio level as env follower,

rather set more or less fixed note length, and only follow velocity .

I don't understand really what you mean by

there are quite few fast pitch detectors, in case of
marimba, wooden xylo etc I wonder if one shot samples would work better.
I mean instead of using measured audio level as env follower,
rather set more or less fixed note length, and only follow velocity .
just like drum pad ? what do you think ?
I don't understand really what you mean by

you mean to transpose detected notes ?




Now seeing you mention contact mic - maybe you have strong attack

and not so prominent sustain in sound, which makes a bit of trouble for pitch detectors.

Maybe one needs to condition input a bit ?

It would be interesting to hear audio recording of your input instrument

to see what to do for better audio - midi conversion.

Now seeing you mention contact mic - maybe you have strong attack
and not so prominent sustain in sound, which makes a bit of trouble for pitch detectors.
Maybe one needs to condition input a bit ?
It would be interesting to hear audio recording of your input instrument
to see what to do for better audio - midi conversion.
a short mp3 file would do...


Right. Output scales: by choosing scales I meant that the instrument I now play, has beautiful, microtonal "side-notes", meaning over- and undertones chiming when you hit one note - it enriches the sound. Also there is a sizzle, or buzz effect built in the instrument. These together confuse the pitch detectors into thinking that the note I hit is a semi-note lower or higher. Sounds awful... So I need to be able to define my notes in the plugin.

Attack: yes, it is strong and short. Which is why I'd love to be able to stretch their sustain with live audio effects. Among other modifications.

Audio recordings: well, since you asked... I give two: an example of my first wobbly audio effect experiments (it's still pretty new to me), and a traditional-style thingie. These give, I hope, at least some sort of an idea, although you don't hear the over-and undertones nor buzz in either of these too well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXbAHbor7iY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocuwdLhCNr4

Right. Output scales: by choosing scales I meant that the instrument I now play, has beautiful, microtonal "side-notes", meaning over- and undertones chiming when you hit one note - it enriches the sound. Also there is a sizzle, or buzz effect built in the instrument. These together confuse the pitch detectors into thinking that the note I hit is a semi-note lower or higher. Sounds awful... So I need to be able to define my notes in the plugin.

Attack: yes, it is strong and short. Which is why I'd love to be able to stretch their sustain with live audio effects. Among other modifications.

Audio recordings: well, since you asked... I give two: an example of my first wobbly audio effect experiments (it's still pretty new to me), and a traditional-style thingie. These give, I hope, at least some sort of an idea, although you don't hear the over-and undertones nor buzz in either of these too well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXbAHbor7iY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocuwdLhCNr4



I will have some time tomorrow to have a look/listen.

I know what balafon sounds like, contct mic as predefined trigger

woul work better there, just like drumpad, but that is something comptely

I will have some time tomorrow to have a look/listen.
I know what balafon sounds like, contct mic as predefined trigger
woul work better there, just like drumpad, but that is something comptely
different


Hah - I'm so used to explaining what a balafon is that I don't even consider the possibility that someone would know :D Mine represent the diatonic style: the one I play now (not in the videos, but similar) has a very bright, clear sound, with beautiful buzz. Gives a healthy signal to the made-to-measure microphone system.

Million thanks for your input! All thoughts and ideas are most welcome. With this instrument, what I try to do is pioneering work, so there's no one to refer to or ask specific advice from.

EDIT: Came to think of something, dunno if it makes a difference. I talk about contact mics, but they're not piezos, which read vibrations. Mine are small acoustic mics, attached air-tightly very close to the keys with removable putty. To the outside eye, they may look like piezos, but there is about 1-2mm air in between.

Hah - I'm so used to explaining what a balafon is that I don't even consider the possibility that someone would know :D Mine represent the diatonic style: the one I play now (not in the videos, but similar) has a very bright, clear sound, with beautiful buzz. Gives a healthy signal to the made-to-measure microphone system.

Million thanks for your input! All thoughts and ideas are most welcome. With this instrument, what I try to do is pioneering work, so there's no one to refer to or ask specific advice from.

EDIT: Came to think of something, dunno if it makes a difference. I talk about contact mics, but they're not piezos, which read vibrations.  Mine are small acoustic mics, attached  air-tightly very close to the keys with removable putty. To the outside eye, they may look like piezos, but there is about 1-2mm air in between.


It can not help in terms of what gets receivd into that

audio-midi plugin and how to make it work better.

It is anyway difficult if you play more than one note at a time,

What I would need to see is a dry audio recording of input into that plugin

and current midi output, as well as detection settings you use.

You mentioned that it works perfectly (which is hard to imagine)

with only that one problem - not outputting repeated notes.

I don't know what you really expect from audio - midi conversion,

play a midi synth ? Where does velocity come from ? Is it constant ?

Even with best hardware guitar to midi I used over years,

one had to adjust playing and reduce it to what worked without

fiddle and sigmund pitch detectors can detect poly pitches to some extent.

Had a look at youtube links ....
It can not help in terms of what gets receivd into that
audio-midi plugin and how to make it work better.
It is anyway difficult if you play more than one note at a time,
and fast anyway.
What I would need to see is a dry audio recording of input into that plugin
and current midi output, as well as detection settings you use.
You mentioned that it works perfectly (which is hard to imagine)
with only that one problem - not outputting repeated notes.
I don't know what you really expect from audio - midi conversion,
play a midi synth ?  Where does velocity come from ? Is it constant ?
Even with best hardware guitar to midi I used over years,
one had to adjust playing and reduce it to what worked without
glitches and false triggerings.

fiddle and sigmund pitch detectors can detect poly pitches to some extent.


In scenes and loops that utilise audio2midi-in-realtime conversion, I don't have to play too fast, nor many notes at once. I can do those with non-converting audio tracks + audio effects, in paralleling scenes/tracks. Audio2midi would be used for creating melodies, loops, backgrounds, and longer sustaining notes, via midi conversion. I'd also be to use instruments from the midi instrument selection, guitars, accordeons, whatever. This poorly functioning plugin is actually in use in one of my pieces, creating a fairly simple bass line. Had to make one with no two notes repeating.

So yes, I will adjust my playing to avoid glitches and false triggerings, in tracks and sequences where this plugin is being used. I'll see what it can do and play accordingly. The better it performs, the more options I have, for sure.

Not sure I understand all these, so let me check: 

- Velocity? When I play, the audio signal outputs velocity according to how hard I hit the key. Detection settings? I plug the balo from its output into my sound card... Is that what you mean? "Dry audio recording". Do you mean an audio recording without effects, captured with Live?

In scenes and loops that utilise audio2midi-in-realtime conversion, I don't have to play too fast, nor many notes at once. I can do those with non-converting audio tracks + audio effects, in paralleling scenes/tracks. Audio2midi would be used for creating melodies, loops, backgrounds, and longer sustaining notes, via midi conversion. I'd also be to use instruments from the midi instrument selection, guitars, accordeons, whatever. This poorly functioning plugin is actually in use in one of my pieces, creating a fairly simple bass line. Had to make one with no two notes repeating.

So yes, I will adjust my playing to avoid glitches and false triggerings, in tracks and sequences where this plugin is being used. I'll see what it can do and play accordingly. The better it performs, the more options I have, for sure.

Not sure I understand all these, so let me check: 
- Velocity? When I play, the audio signal outputs velocity according to how hard I hit the key.  Detection settings? I plug the balo from its output into my sound card... Is that what you mean?  "Dry audio recording". Do you mean an audio recording without effects, captured with Live?



plug you sent has no velocity at all, it only sends note numbers.

I tested it with even built-in macbook mic, sang few notes, without even

raising gain, and I could reset that change object easily even with input -30db.

If you want further help, I need recording of your instrument, dry and direct

exactly as it gets into plugin, to be able to make some tests. 

if you spread mics in stereo, I want it exactly so.

play short sequence which represents a bit what you'd like to get converted to midi.

also play once each balafon plate soft, mid and hard.

You can upload recordings to https://files.fm/ 

this plugin hard links pitch to midi notes, maybe you need some extras

if your balafon is tuned "african style" 

plug you sent has no velocity at all, it only sends note numbers.
I tested it with even built-in macbook mic, sang few notes, without even
raising gain, and I could reset that change object easily even with input -30db.

If you want further help, I need recording of your instrument, dry and direct
exactly as it gets into plugin, to be able to make some tests. 
if you spread mics in stereo, I want it exactly so.
play short sequence which represents a bit what you'd like to get converted to midi.
also play once each balafon plate soft, mid and hard.

You can upload recordings to https://files.fm/    
and post link...
-----
this plugin hard links pitch to midi notes, maybe you need some extras
if your balafon is tuned "african style" 

P.S.
Do you run 32 or 64 bit Live ?


I now uploaded a couple of short samples that you can play as loops. If they're not ok, I'll gladly provide more! They are recorded with ableton live: exterior audio input from the balafon output (the 22 key mics are all combined via box into a single output jack), no effects, raw sound, warts and all: 

About the repeat-note problem: I have no idea then why I can't get those to play with this plugin! For comparison, I have another audio2midi-plugin, which plays the note-repetitions without any problem. But that one produces too many wrong notes, as it doesn't allow me to define notes. Also, there are a lot of extra rumblings, and glitches in that one, could do with a bit less of those, if any way possible.

EDIT: Added a sustaining loop into the folder, now there's 5 short, simple loops.

I now uploaded a couple of short samples that you can play as loops. If they're not ok, I'll gladly provide more! They are recorded with ableton live:  exterior audio input from the balafon output (the 22 key mics are all combined via box into a single output jack), no effects, raw sound, warts and all: https://files.fm/u/wg2dj5waz

About the repeat-note problem: I have no idea then why I can't get those to play with this plugin! For comparison, I have another audio2midi-plugin, which plays the note-repetitions without any problem.  But that one produces too many wrong notes, as it doesn't allow me to define notes. Also, there are a lot of extra rumblings, and glitches in that one, could do with a bit less of those, if any way possible.

Very grateful for all the help!

EDIT: Added a sustaining loop into the folder, now there's 5 short, simple loops.


I had a short look at the samples and how that plugin reacts to them,

not really well, but it is to be expected because not only single

balafon note allreay has mixed attack frequency which depends on a mallet

then the actual resonance of the plate, followed by calabashe resonance and buzz , typical for balafons.

we talk about single, separated note, not mixed with allredy sustaining ones.

made with precise frequency measurement :

As you said that it works perfect for you, despite that repeate note problem, I wanted to see what settings you use in that device.

because one can slow down the recognition a lot.

Back to the problem - that device is not sending velocity,

Notes probably get triggerd in that other plugin which

Means that repeated note problem must be in that other plugin.

I makes me wonder what sense all this notes and scales selection make ?

You want to convert balfon notes which anyway are a bit out of tune

to pitch quantised midi notes, and then transpose to different scale,

I had a short look at the samples and how that plugin reacts to them,
not really well, but it is to be expected because not only  single
balafon note allreay has mixed attack frequency which depends on a mallet
then the actual resonance of the plate, followed by calabashe resonance and buzz , typical for balafons.
we talk about single, separated note, not mixed with allredy sustaining ones.
look at freq capture of first note in  01-balafon scales.aif
made with precise frequency measurement :
freq 193.264 note 54.757
freq 193.300 note 54.760
freq 193.509 note 54.779
freq 193.780 note 54.803
freq 194.028 note 54.825
freq 194.434 note 54.861
freq 194.206 note 54.841
freq 194.532 note 54.870
freq 194.367 note 54.855
freq 194.571 note 54.874
freq 194.600 note 54.876
freq 194.537 note 54.870
freq 194.819 note 54.896
freq 194.576 note 54.874
freq 194.982 note 54.910
freq 194.678 note 54.883
freq 195.011 note 54.913
freq 194.971 note 54.909
freq 194.906 note 54.903
freq 195.272 note 54.936
freq 194.846 note 54.898
freq 195.403 note 54.947
freq 194.947 note 54.907
freq 195.361 note 54.944
freq 195.126 note 54.923

As you said that it works perfect for you, despite that repeate note problem, I wanted to see what settings you use in that device.
because one can slow down the recognition a lot.
Back to the problem - that device is not sending velocity,
it only sends last recognised note out.
Notes probably get triggerd in that other plugin which
creates velocity out of input level.
Means that repeated note problem must be in that other plugin.
----- 
I makes me wonder what sense all this notes and scales selection make ?
You want to convert balfon notes which anyway are a bit out of tune
to pitch quantised midi notes, and then transpose to different scale,
and amplify all together ?



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Ok - I can now see that "perfectly" was not the correct word. It worked well enough so that I was able to play a simple bass line with it. After failing with lotsa plugins it felt like a huge victory, and I got carried away.

Yes, I wish to convert balafon notes into pitch-corrected midi notes. Then yes, sometimes I may transpose them, if needed (like for bass lines), or use an instrument sound and effects. Like, for example, a violin or an accordion or guitar sound for a waltz. I can, for example, create live loops and backgrounds to play solos on, sometimes with "real" balafon sound, sometimes the sound gets altered with live audio effects. The pieces I compose consist both of non-converted playing fattened with audio effects and, if it works, midi-converted instrument sounds, in a live performance. I hope I explain it clearly.

Velocity - well yes. That'd be a bonus. But if that becomes a huge problem, I can do lots even without it.

What I am looking for is a reasonably reliable midi-converter plugin, that captures the audio notes in an audio track, and on a receiving midi track, the second part of the plugin catches them. Do you think that could be possible with an instrument of this kind?

Ok - I can now see that "perfectly" was not the correct word. It worked well enough so that I was able to play a simple bass line with it. After failing with lotsa plugins it felt like a huge victory, and I got carried away.

Yes, I wish to convert balafon notes into pitch-corrected midi notes.  Then yes, sometimes I may transpose them, if needed (like for bass lines), or use an instrument sound and effects. Like, for example, a violin or an accordion or guitar sound for a waltz. I can, for example, create live loops and backgrounds to play solos on, sometimes with "real" balafon sound, sometimes the sound gets altered with live audio effects. The pieces I compose consist both of non-converted playing fattened with audio effects and, if it works, midi-converted instrument sounds, in a live performance. I hope I explain it clearly.

Velocity - well yes. That'd be a bonus. But if that becomes a huge problem, I can do lots even without it.

What I am looking for is a reasonably reliable midi-converter plugin, that captures the audio notes in an audio track, and on a receiving midi track, the second part of the plugin catches them. Do you think that could be possible with an instrument of this kind?


You pickup using mics, and they have crosstalk,

I will test your samples through all available pitch detectors

which work in older max version, with intention to output more than one pitch, because you will allways have overlapping detections.

Few more sound examples woud not be bad to have.

and please post that other plugin that actually plays notes, together

with screenshot of settings you used in first plugin.

difficult to say.
You pickup using mics, and they have crosstalk,
and all the rest I described.
I will test your samples through all available pitch detectors
which work in older max version, with intention to output more than one pitch, because you will allways have overlapping detections.
Few more sound examples woud not be bad to have.
and please post that other plugin that actually plays notes, together
with screenshot of settings you used in first plugin.
It makes me wonder where your "ok, it kind of works" 
threshold was...



I uploaded some screenshots and plugins. The first plugin audio part you already have, now I added the receiver part, in case that plays a role. The second plugin, audio + midi parts, produces at least a sound as well but gets too often mistaken about the note. In the midi track, after the receiver, I just have whatever instruments and maybe some effects, to prouce an audible sound - in these pics I'm trying to create a bassline sound. I didn't really change any settings, actually, in either of the plugins... just the scales in the first plugin. 

More audio samples? Sure! What kind would help the most?

I uploaded some screenshots and plugins. The first plugin audio part you already have, now I added the receiver part, in case that plays a role. The second plugin, audio + midi parts, produces at least a sound as well but gets too often mistaken about the note. In the midi track, after the receiver, I just have whatever instruments and maybe some effects, to prouce an audible sound - in these pics I'm trying to create a bassline sound. I didn't really change any settings, actually, in either of the plugins... just the scales in the first plugin. https://files.fm/u/b2qatsr4v 

More audio samples? Sure! What kind would help the most?


ok, I had a look into that midi output part of the first plugin.

Makes not much sense, why should one need 2 plugins to output a note ?

In addition, it does not react to audio input at all,

but pounds velocity 127 out all the time.

the other pitch detector is sigmund~ based, should actually work well,

it is maybe a matter of setting it better.

It is essential to play single notes, otherwise pitch detectors output

Let's see what I can do with the different detectors.

ok, I had a look into that midi output part of the first plugin.
Makes not much sense, why should one need 2 plugins to output a note ?
Maybe it is some limitation in Live ?
I don't use live at all so can't tell.
In addition, it does not react to audio input at all,
but pounds velocity 127 out all the time.

the other pitch detector is sigmund~ based, should actually work well,
it is maybe a matter of setting it better.

It is essential to play single notes, otherwise pitch detectors output
wrong notes.

Let's see what I can do with the different detectors.


The reason why two plugins are needed is that an audio track is necessary for capturing the external sound source, in this case, the balafon. But audio tracks in Ableton Live cannot utilize midi instruments and effects - audio tracks can only use audio effects for sound altering. Audio effects are many, you can do lots with them, but they're limited in how much and in what ways you can process the sound. To be able to use the midi possibilities for an audio instrument in real-time, such as getting short hits to sustain for a longer time, or selecting a different instrument altogether as your output sound, you need to be able to convert and successfully transfer the signal from an audio track into a midi track.

The reason why two plugins are needed is that an audio track is necessary for capturing the external sound source, in this case, the balafon.  But audio tracks in Ableton Live cannot utilize midi instruments and effects - audio tracks can only use audio effects for sound altering. Audio effects are many, you can do lots with them, but they're limited in how much and in what ways you can process the sound. To be able to use the midi possibilities for an audio instrument in real-time, such as getting short hits to sustain for a longer time, or selecting a different instrument altogether as your output sound, you need to be able to convert and successfully transfer the signal from an audio track into a midi track.

Added three more loops, numbers 6-8, in the folder and updated the info text. I tried to make something where notes might overlap. With short and sharp attack sounds that's not easy. Hoping these'll help some. 

Added three more loops, numbers 6-8, in the folder and updated the info text. I tried to make something where notes might overlap. With short and sharp attack sounds that's not  easy.  Hoping these'll help some. 
https://files.fm/u/nyvnbxbkt 

I thing that changed in new Live verions, both audio and midi

But it is no big deal to split pitch detection and midi.

Usual pitch detector has problems with overlapping notes,

this is attempt at your bass line using mono detector

with some tweaking with extra onset detection.

BassLineMidi.mp3

But that is not what I am after - I want to get overlapping notes without big troubles.

I thing that changed in new Live verions, both audio and midi
can be used in same device.
But it is no big deal to split pitch detection and midi.
Usual pitch detector has problems with overlapping notes,
this is attempt at your bass line using mono detector
midi notes sent to built in DLS synth
with some tweaking with extra onset detection.


But that is not what I am after - I want to get overlapping notes without big troubles.



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Välkommen till Nordens största marknadsplats! Här finner du ett ständigt växande utbud inom sport, mode, media, elektronik, livsmedel och mycket mer. Vår ambition är att förse dig med allt du vill ha till de bästa priserna.
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Wow! That's *way* better than what I've been able to do. Accurate and clean already! I hear that dropped down a coupla octaves and completed with juicy instrument+effect settings... yes yes :) So far I've been able to reliably reproduce a much slower bass line consisting of singular hits with ample time in between - any faster playing causes too much false or unplaying notes, snarls, impurities, you name it. I'm impressed.

Yea, newer Live versions may have all kinds of delicacies, I wouldn't know. My mid 2009 Mac doesn't eat modern.

Wow! That's *way* better than what I've been able to do. Accurate and clean already! I hear that dropped down a coupla octaves and completed with juicy instrument+effect settings... yes yes :) So far I've been able to reliably reproduce a much slower bass line consisting of singular hits with ample time in between - any faster playing causes too much false or unplaying notes, snarls, impurities, you name it. I'm impressed.

Yea, newer Live versions may have all kinds of delicacies, I wouldn't know. My mid 2009 Mac doesn't eat modern.


Just give me some time to make few tests.

I might take few days, it is a bit bussy time for me at the moment.

In the mean time, I would propose another thing to you:

if your pickups were piezos, I would immediately suggest

plugging them into little arduino processor and make all digital

balafon to midi super fast & reliable device.

But that might also be possible with your mics.

The thing is - you allready invested something in connecting that 22 mics

into some sort of preamps, in best case 22 single ones,

One could connect that with 22 wires to arduino, and send

midi notes with velocity out without restrictions in playing

If you send me some details about electronics involved,

Just give me some time to make few tests.
I might take few days, it is a bit bussy time for me at the moment.
In the mean time, I would propose another thing to you:
if your pickups were piezos, I would immediately suggest
plugging them into little arduino processor and make all digital
balafon to midi super fast & reliable device.
But that might also be possible with your mics.
The thing is - you allready invested something in connecting that 22 mics
into some sort of preamps, in best case 22 single ones,
mixed together at the end.
One could connect that with 22 wires to arduino, and send
midi notes with velocity out without restrictions in playing
polyphone, fast etc.
If you send me some details about electronics involved,
I could tell you what would be needed.



Thank you so much. Sounds absolutely awesome. Like I mentioned, I wish to conduct an artistic research to study a musician's creative leeway with this kind of traditional acoustic instrument. The midi option will vastly expand the range of expression.

Piezos - yes, the are fantastic. But it's a balancing act: you get this and lose that. The initial reason why I invested on these mics is that they can convey the original sound well enough, buzz and extra noises included at least to some extent. I got fed up playing blind in band setups: the loud percussions entered my mics and I had no hope of hearing anything from the monitors due to feedback overload. Today, in gigs where I use live audio effects, I do still need the traditional sound as well: the pieces are layered mixes of pre-programmed, grouped sound effects, some more drastic than others, live looping and instrument solos, scene changes initiated with a multi-knob foot pedal. With piezos, it is like... well, you just can't get an acoustic nylon string sound out of an electric guitar.

Piezos might work as a secondary option, as the keys do have two ends for attaching mics. I know I won't be able to construct a system like that at this point, but depending on where the project takes me, who knows - I will keep the option in mind. What I currently have, adjusted to fit my instrument, is this: 

https://www.ischell.com/en/micros-pour-balafon-vibraphone-multisources/

Thank you so much. Sounds absolutely awesome. Like I mentioned, I wish to conduct an artistic research to study a musician's creative leeway with this kind of traditional acoustic instrument. The midi option will vastly expand the range of expression.

Piezos - yes, the are fantastic. But it's a balancing act: you get this and lose that. The initial reason why I invested on these mics is that they can convey the original sound well enough, buzz and extra noises included at least to some extent. I got fed up playing blind in band setups: the loud percussions entered my mics and I had no hope of hearing anything from the monitors due to feedback overload.  Today, in gigs where I use live audio effects, I do still need the traditional sound as well: the pieces are layered mixes of pre-programmed, grouped sound effects, some more drastic than others, live looping and instrument solos, scene changes initiated with a multi-knob foot pedal. With piezos, it is like... well, you just can't get an acoustic nylon string sound out of an electric guitar.

Piezos might work as a secondary option, as the keys do have two ends for attaching mics. I know I won't be able to construct a system like that at this point, but depending on where the project takes me, who knows - I will keep the option in mind. What I currently have, adjusted to fit my instrument, is this: https://www.ischell.com/en/micros-pour-balafon-vibraphone-multisources/





I was not suggesting piezo pickups as amplification, but only as triggers.Your mic setup is not capable of driving any poly triggering,

i mean they would be, but one would have to open that box and insert

Keeping that system as is, you will remain limited in playing technique,

as soon as you want to convert audio to midi without wrong notes

I was not suggesting piezo pickups as amplification, but only as triggers.Your mic setup is not capable of driving any poly triggering,
i mean they would be, but one would have to open that box and insert
trigger electronic per mic inside.
Keeping that system as is, you will remain limited in playing technique,
as soon as you want to convert audio to midi without wrong notes
and multiple false triggering.
That is the tradeoff.


Hmm. I see what you mean. I wasn't dreaming of polyfony, but planned to adjust my midi playing according to whatever the setup can relatively flawlessly output. Still, piezos are not too expensive. Constructing - that's a sizeable hmm-mm. I should open the box and see what's happening inside. The piezos should be detachable: at times I've flown to gigs carrying only the microfon boxes, attaching the system into a borrowed instrument. Double-sided tape could maybe do the trick, dunno. I'm not sure if this project is too much for me to handle, but if it can improve the results, I'd be silly not to give it a good thought.

Let's wait and see how far one can get with pitch detection.

I thought that this will be bound to that specific bafon,

but if you change the instrument, one would again need to adjust

important detection parameters, depending on what frequencies

the keys output, how much buzz noises are produced etc

Let's wait and see how far one can get with pitch detection.
I thought that this will be bound to that specific bafon,
but if you change the instrument, one would again need to adjust
important detection parameters, depending on what frequencies
the keys output, how much buzz noises are produced etc



Yeah - 90% of the time I will be using this one. Yet occasionally I may have to transfer the mics to another instrument. So far, on such tours, I've only needed the mic system for better amplification, and not for sound altering with live audio effects - that's still a new project.

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you balafon is tuned rather low and few keys are on the border between midi pitches.

that means that it is on edge to be recognised 1/2 tone higher

Audio to midi plugin won't play same note twice in a row. Help to edit with M4L?