FTM and CataRT
Hi,
I have upgraded to Max8, and I would like to use the FTM and CataRT libraries. Max has issues locating objects from FTM, such as mess.mxo that used to be located in the startup folder in former Max versions.
Any idea on how to install those libraries the right way?
Their documentation doesn't suit Max' current version.
Thank you.
Coralie
Hi Coralie,
The old FTM objects were originally 32-bit only. Whilst previous versions of Max could be run in 32 or 64 bit mode, Max 8 is 64-bit only. This is the reason why the objects can't be found as they are built for a different architecture. The problem extend to any old max objects that have not been ported to the 64-bit so you might find this issue with other libraries.
Unfortunately FTM is no longer supported by IRCAM as the team are now more focused on MuBu where you can find a reimplementation of catart. The website only has the 32-bit versions.
Fortunately, the good lads in the team did finish a 64-bit version which they posted to the FTM mailing list but was never uploaded to the FTM website as it is no longer maintained. You can download the version from the links below. (OSX or Windows)
http://listes.ircam.fr/wws/d_read/ftm/ftm-and-co-2.7.2-64bit-mac.zip
http://listes.ircam.fr/wws/d_read/ftm/FTM.2.7.0-BETA-Win.zip
Now, in order to install these you need a few extra steps. The links above only contain the externals themselves (no help files, abstractions, interfaces, etc.). If you have already installed the library from the old 32-bit version in the website you only need to replace the contents in the 'externals' sub folder.
For anyone installing from scratch, you would need to create the folder structure placing the 64-bit externals and then copy the rest of the contents of the package.
One last tip, in the 'init' subfolder, there is a text file that specifies the keyboard shortcuts for creating new objects. I change the setting for the [ftm.mess ] to the 'u' key as it doesn't clash with Max's predefined keyboard shortcuts.
Hope this explanation is useful.
Cheers!
Many thanks @Zancudo, the 64-bit FTM objects work perfectly.
I'm somewhat heartbroken to hear that FTM is dead -- I used it a lot for various things other than catart. I realize it's no longer supported, but just for the record, that 64-bit package doesn't run on Windows 10 -- all ftm objects throw 126 errors....
\M
I think that moving on to Mubu is the next step.
Well, MuBu as a toolkit is pointed toward certain uses, whereas FTM is more all-purpose -- I particularly liked how you could handle variables, and do fun tricks with ftm.mess...
@Zancudo Thanks! It works perfectly! I'm not able to develop the same things with MuBu...
It seems, there is a more recent version of ftm (64-bit). I didn't try:
http://listes.ircam.fr/wws/d_read/ftm/?order=order_by_author
I can confirm that 64-bit FTM works fine on Mac. I got errors trying to run them on a Windows 10 machine. As unsupported software, though, one of these days your patches are going to break....
Anyone knows how to implement gabor.devoice into MuBu? Or if there is something similar... I can't find it. As @mzed says, it's better to move before it crushes again...
Thanks
big big big!!!!!!! thank u!
Thank you so much as well! Do you think it works with macOS Ventura or Sonoma? (I'm afraid to update my system in case thoses objects do not work, i'm on Monterey right now) 🙏
(I'm still using some ftm objects in some patchs, for pitch tracking and stuff)
PS. Or if you know some other really good pitch tracking objects (for monophonic periodinc string instrument sound), I'm curious...
🙏
Hi Alexandre,
Can confirm, it still works under Sonoma.
I now have an M1 so need to open it under Rosetta but it seems to work with no error messages.
It is risky still as it might just stop working at the least convenient moment. Wish there was an alternative that allowed the flexibility of [ftm.mess] with the option of named variables, classes, and methods...
FTM 2.8.1 is native silicon, and seems to run fine on the newest everything. I hear you about missing ftm.mess -- I'm a bit afraid to keep using it on new projects, as who knows how long it will be with us.
@ Alexandre: I would highly recommend you check out FTM's offspring, MuBu, for pitch tracking, or any kind of audio analysis -- many tools for all of that are available there, and pretty good!
\M
Hi MATTYO
I wasn't aware they had updated it for silicon. For those who are in the same ship, 2.8.1 is not on the mail list but in the IRCAM website.
FTM is a special case in Max shenanigans. I understand that it is an offspring of JMax which is now also discontinued. The implementation of ftm.mess and the matrix (fmat and mat) as a data structure which doesn't assume the matrix is an RGB plane was a gamechanger.
I can see how this approach was necessary to develop things like CatArt which would otherwise have been extremely difficult if not impossible to do in plain Max. I agree, that MuBu is far simpler and better for some of those large scale processes and do use it extensively. It is without doubt a better and simpler way of achieving those goals.
Yet, that mixed approach to patching where you could condense in a single ftm.mess a series of processes that otherwise take complex patching with the left-right/up-down nature of Max in a neat single box is something that will be sorely missed when it finally stops working. We can see a similar approach in Gen with the codebox object and the param objects which does not necessarily provides extra efficiency for the code but great clarity for the coder.
Doubt we can nudge the IRCAM lads to keep an FTM-lite around and supported for years to come but celebrate that I can keep using it and throw that fear down the line for when it just stops working altogether.
@Alexandre thanks for reviving this old thread and @Mattyo thanks for pointing out at the update. And also to the original authors, a great thanks for making this tool which has brought so many projects to exist. Hope we can still use it for a long time
-Cheers!