Need a plugin that works like a Chosen Scene Clip Launcher

    Jun 02 2020 | 3:18 am
    Chosen Scene Clip Launcher. A plugin that turns clips On/Off in a chosen at the moment (highlighted) scene. 1. A plugin that allows to use an external (foot, FCB1010) controller buttons on turning On/Off a specific clips in Ableton Live Session view. 2. Each controller button should launch the clips within one track (vertical line). Button 1 launches clips in the track 1, button 2 in track 2, etc. 3. This controller button should turn On/Off the clip that belongs to a scene that is chosen at the moment (a horizontal line that highlights when you choose a scene). I think the plugin should look like bunch of numbers (1 through 10, or 20), where each number represents a specific track, and the buttons on the external controller could be mapped to these numbers. And the only thing it will do will be launching a clip that is highlighted in a scene that is chosen at the moment. Thank you.

    • Jun 02 2020 | 3:20 pm
      Hi Hoopa, I could build such a device. Want to contact me via email? (I don't see an email address for you)
      Cheers, Tyler
    • Jun 02 2020 | 4:11 pm
    • Jun 03 2020 | 12:55 pm
      I just added an email to my account here. Source Audio, you are a genius! I was trying to explain here the idea on following a chosen (with the Ableton buttons) scene, and wasn't sure if it is even possible to detect by a plugin, and you simply added a scrolling through scenes function to the plugin! As elegant and ingenious as usual!) By scrolling through the numbers with a mouse I checked the functionality, everything is there. Thank you SO much! I was trying to add the buttons for around 6 hours. I am really a beginner, was going through different kinds of buttons, but no luck so far. Could you please add 2 buttons (increasing and decreasing scene numbers) to the blue square, and 10 buttons (each corresponding to the tracks 1 through 10) to the red square. At first I thought that the Refresh button will change the number of tracks and corresponding buttons, but after trying for 6 hours to assign a button to each number in the red square I realized that number of buttons probably could only be constant.
    • Jun 03 2020 | 2:31 pm
      With buttons I meant messages from FCB Pedal. Like if button 1 sends program change 1 on channel 1 than one would convert that to number 0 and so on. That's what you asked for , right ? What is FCB pedal sending ? Can You edit that ? It makes no sense making visual buttons in the plugin, each song would have different number of tracks and scenes. You can click on play/stop in the clip anyway, so why buttons in the plugin ? --- Refresh button is there just to ask for number of scenes and tracks and limit int boxes range. I guess one could automate that when something changes in the Live Song, but let's not overcomplicate that.
    • Jun 03 2020 | 8:29 pm
      There are 12 physical buttons on the pedal. They all (by my initial idea) will be MIDI mapped to the actual (mappable) buttons in the plugin interface. 2 of them will be constantly dedicated to the increasing/decreasing the number in the blue square (switching the scenes), they are always the same 2 (up and down). The remaining 10 could be mapped to the 10 MIDI mappable buttons in the plugin where each button always represents the same track (button 1 for track number 1, button 2 for track 2, etc.) Ableton Live has Toggle as one of the options for launching the clips, which allows to Start/Stop a clip by pressing the same button. That's why the Launch button sitting now next to the red square might not be even needed at all, because the way the plugin is working now allows me to click on the number in the red square, advance to any number, and while simply releasing the mouse button it triggers the Start/Stop action at the corresponding track, at the previously chosen in the blue square song number. So, basically, if there was a MIDI mappable button for every number in the red square then everything would be usable right away. The presence of the Refresh button made me think that the range of numbers in both squares will be adjustable according to the number of current scenes and tracks, but since the same controller's buttons launch clips in the same track I wasn't sure if this more advanced flexible clip numbers version would make me remap every button after pressing the Refresh button.
    • Jun 03 2020 | 9:18 pm
      Source Audio is right, you probably don't want to do the MIDI mapping thing.
      If you use MIDI mappable buttons you'll end up recording automation of your button presses, which may have undesirable results when you playback (unless during playback you are selecting the same scene as when you recorded).
      You may be (probably are) better off just taking MIDI input from your pedal and parsing the MIDI CC information to determine when you fire / toggle a clip on a track. Also, if you set up the device this way then once you save your device you don't need to redo the MIDI Mapping of the pedal buttons every time you want to use the device in a new project. You could still build button UI into the device if you really wanted it, just mark it 'hidden' for its parameter mode.
    • Jun 03 2020 | 11:47 pm
      Tyler, thank you so much for your reply! Regarding the recording automation of the button presses. Just would like to emphasize that this setup will be used for a live performance only. A playback, no recording. Do you think in that case the recording problem might still accure? Regarding the CC instead of MIDI mapping. I think you are right, it should keep the chosen on the controller buttons assigned to the same 10 tracks. Should those CC's be hardwired into the plugin, or could they be assignable? There is one thing I noticed: the plugin the way it is now is 99% functional, but when I release the mouse on any number in the red square (the tracks choice) it perfectly starts that clip, but if I do the same and choose the same number it wont stop the clip (in the Toggle mode). Only after I Start/Stop any other clip and then come back to the one I started in the beginning the clip will stop playing (in the Toggle "Same button Start/Stop" mode).
    • Jun 04 2020 | 12:11 am
      To stay flexible I'd just store the CC numbers in live.numbox objects in parameter mode 'stored only'. That way you can (a) set initial values to be what you currently use and (b) change them on the fly later if needed. Then you can store 'preset' of the M4L device with different CC configurations later if need be.
    • Jun 04 2020 | 7:42 am
      If you look at the code inside of that amxd it is so minimal and simple. The only challenging task was to build a list of scene numbers-IDs because for whatever reason they don't match in Live. Scenes get assigned some ID, don't ask me why and can't be scrolled by their position so simply. ----- I decided for testing purpose to just toggle the state of the clip. So when track number (red int box) gets fired it asks that clip if it is running or not, and toggles the state. So all you need is that 10 midi values coming from the pedal to fire one of 10 tracks, and 2 midi values to scroll scenes.
      That should be a simple enough task, right ? Being manual control, there is no need to record or automate anything. It schould be surely possible to make a midi learn or just some sort of selector for the 12 values, but this is your plugin and your pedal, so you can program it the way you want. ----- There is one thing I noticed: the plugin the way it is now is 99% functional, but when I release the mouse on any number in the red square (the tracks choice) it perfectly starts that clip, but if I do the same and choose the same number it wont stop the clip (in the Toggle mode). Only after I Start/Stop any other clip and then come back to the one I started in the beginning the clip will stop playing (in the Toggle "Same button Start/Stop" mode). That is normal behaviour of Max number object when set value is not changed. You don't want to trigger stuff while scrolling to reach desired value, that's why it is set to output on mouse up only. The button left to the red number is there to repeatedly trigger same number without the need to go in and scroll again. With footpedal, that would be obsolete. ------ The way tracks get stoped is dependent on launch parameters for the clips and quantisation. ------- Scene number/ID detector is needed if you want to use scroller to select scenes, track number detect can be removed, there will be only 10 buttons, and if one fires into non- existing track it anyway gets ignored. -------- If you can't manage to insert midi values from that pedal post exactly what it is sending and I'll add that into patch.
    • Jun 04 2020 | 9:28 am
      Here is next one, only midi from pedal shoul be added
      If scenes change it will auto refresh IDs and reselect scene 0 Hold Up / Down button auto scrolls im 250 ms interval ------------ Patch had a mistake inside, reuploaded it fixed
    • Jun 05 2020 | 8:27 pm
      Source Audio, thank you so much for such great plugin! The code might be minimal, but the functionality is very important for a live performance. Launching a clip will start a song, and having the buttons assigned to the same groups of instruments in every scene will allow to hide the computer out of view. Please assign the CC's 22 to 31 to the clip launching buttons, and 84, 85 to the scene scrolling buttons. I will look at the code to see where the values entered, and change the numbers if ever needed.
    • Jun 06 2020 | 7:16 am
      assuming that all pedal switches send > 0 when pressed and 0 on release 22 -31 trigger 0 - 9 on pedal down, 84 & 85 activate Down & Up buttons.
      midi router is the left one, it could have done a bit simpler, like the blue part on the right, if CC numbers for 10 clip launchers were left as consecutive numbers. But to stay flexible the left route 22 23 24 25 26 27 ... 84 85 can be easily edited to any CC# number
    • Jun 07 2020 | 12:21 pm
      Source Audio, I changed the CC numbers on the green strip, saved the file, restarted Max, opened the plugin, and the new numbers were saved! Thank you very much! The "0"'s underneath represent the value, so, I can change them to 127 if needed, right? At this time the plugin does not launch the clips when I change the CC numbers on the green strip, nor when I keep them 22 to 31, and match the CC numbers on a controller. The same with the numbers 84 and 85, they do not move the scene line up and down, and they are after the range 22 to 31, shouldn't they be at or by the squares Down and Up? The controller board has 12 buttons, and which ones will be used for the scenes line moving or for the clips launching is just the matter assigning a CC numbers to them.
    • Jun 07 2020 | 12:36 pm
      You have to upload the patch for me to see what is wrong with it. As first, did my original patch work ? If it did, than you made some mistake modifying the patch. 10 trigger buttons only trigger when pedal is pressed, and 2 buttons for scrolling the scenes need both up & down pedal detection to work. Is that understandable ? And post once exactly what the pedals are sending . what number when pressed, what when released.
      the > 0 is as clear as blue sky - means is incoming number greater than zero, If yes than output 1 if not then 0. sel 1 makes a bang and so triggers the clip.
    • Jun 08 2020 | 1:04 pm
      Source Audio , thank you SO much!! Everything is working perfectly! Just the way described, and again even better than described: you added the Fire Selected Scene and the Track buttons. The problem was that I was testing it with a track Monitor Auto button on (turns on by default), but the plugin should be used with the Monitor In. I am sorry that it caused the misunderstanding on my side. So many hours I was sitting and going through your notes and trying to see what settings have I done wrong while it was simply the Monitor In..) You mentioned in one of your notes: If scenes change it will auto refresh IDs and reselect scene 0 Hold Up / Down button auto scrolls im 250 ms interval. I will count on Global Quantize and hit the Scene Change pedal anywhere in a previous bar, so, 250ms scrolling wont be needed (I think). If I hold the button a little longer it might jump to the next scene. Where can I increase this Scene Change pedal hold time for like a full second? Again, thank you SO much, you are absolutely incredible!
    • Jun 08 2020 | 2:51 pm
      250 ms is set in patcher sceneSel, just below the actual buttons.
      You have to set it show on lock, lock the patch , then doubleclick on it to open and edit it. either increase 250 in metro. or disconnect metro output, to disable auto -scroll. Hide on Lock when done ... Would 1 second interval make sense at all ? One would be much faster tapping. So you could remove it totaly ( I mean auto scroll) ------- What I meant with "if scenes change" is not if any scene is selected, but if number of scenes changed or they were rearanged in the list. If so, than number of scenes gets rescanned and scroll max refreshed. It has nothing to do with selection of the scenes.
    • Jun 10 2020 | 10:58 am
      Source Audio, thank you so much for your reply! There will be no computer in front of me during a live performance, so, I wont know what scene the scene scroller stopped at. I will simply arrange the song sequence the way I want beforehand, but the live performance conditions are pretty hard to control sometimes, so, to hold a pedal for less than 250ms might be not 100% of the time convenient. I followed your instructions and adjusted the hold time perfectly. Thank you so much! Now, testing the plugin I see that certain things turned out to be better than expected (launching the clips buttons work as if the Toggle mode was already selected, so, it is not necessary to set this mode for every clip one by one), and also I see that the Fire Selected Scene button you incorporated makes much more sense because depending on a scene you want to start it with one instrument or all of them playing right away. Could we please have the Fire Selected Scene button as the 13th button on the green strip? I switched to the Roland PK 5A, and it is a 13 buttons controller, so, it will make perfect sense)
    • Jun 10 2020 | 11:48 am
      I can't test this in Live at the moment, but it should work I hope. I added an option to hold the Fire Scene button longer than 1000 ms to reset scene counter and recall scene 0 You can easily remove it as shown, if that does not serve you, or change hold time...
    • Jun 11 2020 | 12:00 pm
      Source Audio, thank you so much! Everything works great! After holding the Fire Selected Scene button over 1 second the scene choice jumps to the 1st scene. At first I thought that this function should be given to the Scroll Up the scene button, but later I I realized that the Fire Selected Scene button will not be used as much and its extra function of choosing the 1st scene line after holding it over a second is appropriate. Overall this is a very interesting feature to play with, makes me want to arrange the scenes in more evolving way). More creative tool than just a launcher) Thank you SO much!
    • Jun 15 2020 | 1:02 pm
      Source Audio, I use Behringer Motor as a 2nd keyboard, because it has 8 motorized sliders. If a song has more than 8 active tracks the Motor makes a new page with every new 9th track, and then I can scroll through the pages with 2 buttons (increasing/decreasing the numbers of pages). The Motor is connected to the Ableton with Mackie Control protocol, so, the keyboard's sliders control the tracks levels, and the tracks levels control motorized sliders, transporter, e.t.c. Do you think there is any way to synchronize the first 8 tracks launch buttons in this plugin with a chosen sliders page? In other words, if page 3 in the sliders pages scroller is chosen could the button 2 turn On/Off the second track on that 3rd page (track 18 in actuality)? This way the 8 sliders on the Motor will always correspond to the first 8 launch buttons of this plugin, no matter what page is chosen.
    • Jun 15 2020 | 2:01 pm
      I am sure that something you ask can be done, but have no idea how to go about it. I don't get the relation sliders - launch buttons What are track launch buttons ? Hardware buttons on behringer or abletons GUI buttons ? In any case one should use page number to shift control of that "launch buttons"
    • Jun 16 2020 | 12:15 am
      By the "launch buttons" I mean the 10 buttons in this plugin that were controlled in the red box. Now they have assignable CC #'s on the green strip, 22 through 31. There are 2 kinds of control in this plugin: one goes through the scenes (Up and Down), the other launches (Starts/Stops) the clips within a chosen scene (left and right). This second kind of the buttons I call a "launch buttons". The way the plugin is now it launches (Starts/Stops) the first 10 clips in a chosen scene, I am hopping that there could be a way to Start/Stop the clips that are currently chosen by the page scroller in the Motor, within the scene chosen in the scene selector.
    • Jun 16 2020 | 5:58 am
      then you need to retreive that "page number". The Scene-Clip launcher receives midi from footpedal so it can't receive midi from control surface as well. I don't use live but can't remember seeing any pages splits for more than 8 tracks.. So how do we get there ? Maybe playing with automation in Live ? You have to find that out. One can try it 2 ways : 1- merge midi from motor and footpedal so that footpedal routes the page number infos to the Scene-Clip plugin 2- check if Live would be able to route that page number to Scene-Clip plugin internaly, by automation or something else ?
      one can easily add renumbering of the 10 buttons, once you kow how to get that info into the plugin.
    • Jun 18 2020 | 10:53 am
      To my surprise this Up/Down Sliders Page Scroller physical buttons do send a MIDI signal, the MIDI indicator in Live shows a signal going in AND out of Live when I click these Up/Down buttons. But when I try to map them to any button in Live it is not doing it (I hopped that it will show me some CC#). What kind of a MIDI signal could be sent, and where in a DAW it could be registered and analysed (if it does not send a CC#)?
    • Jun 18 2020 | 11:02 am
      The Motor controls the Live by the Mackie Control protocol, I don't know much about it, but I think because of that the buttons (that are acting through the MC protocol) will not show a CC#, right? If so, is there any way to still get a hold of them anyway?
    • Jun 18 2020 | 11:07 am
      make max4live device with midiin and thresh and message. that will show you what gets in
      even sysex will be shown --------- If you would be more informative about that gear, it woud be easier to suggest something. I would plug midi out of the footpedal to that motor behringer thing, merge it's midi with motor output and so solve the problem. But I have no idea what this units can do and if that is possible. Anyway, the main problem is Live and it's midi routing restrictions
    • Jun 18 2020 | 12:42 pm
      to your question about mackie protocol it uses standard midi messages, notes, CC only if messages are longer than 3 bytes it uses sysex
    • Jun 18 2020 | 5:16 pm
      Speaking of the Roland PK 5A (the pedal) going into the MIDI In of Motor, and then going out of USB MIDI Merge. This is exactly what I wanted to do because this way everything goes into the DAW with just 1 USB wire , but I use the Roland in its MIDI Controller mode and the foot keyboard mode. When used in the keyboard mode the notes pressed on it 50% of the time do not send a "Note OFF" MIDI signal, or sometimes do not send even a "Note On". I checked it with another dedicated MIDI to USB cable connected directly to the computer with exactly the same results. The only working setup is when I connect the Roland (pedal) to the iConnectivity MIO4 box. The only thing this box does is connecting MIDI's and USB's, it has 6 MIDI , 5 USB, and 1 Ethernet out. The Roland (pedal) works perfect when connected through it to the computer, so, the problem is not with the pedal but with the way its MIDI out signal is handled. Mystery! The MIDI to USB cable simply converts the same signal, somehow it's not enough. The Motor is much more sophisticated (motorized sliders, knobs, pads, etc.) but the same "glitchy" results. What is iConnectivity "adding" to the signal that makes it work the way it should? I know that you are a musician. Have you ever encountered such "glitchy" MIDI to USB outputs, and what possibly the iConnectivity could be doing that handles the MIDI out the right way?
    • Jun 19 2020 | 8:40 am
      You should allways provide exact connection schema. I can't tell from what you posted which unit is connected via 5pol midi which as usb etc. What I can tell is that some midi devices have problem when connected to USB 3 ports. ----- But now that you use that merge box, why don't you merge midi from roland and behringer into 1 midi stream ? That way Scene Clip plugin could receive on same port and use page numbers. ------- Did you check midi data from/to behringer ? Also Live has 3 Mackie protocol variants, which one do you use ? It is a bit tiring to have to extract needed informations when trying to help. This could have been sorted days ago with just few infos
    • Jun 21 2020 | 4:06 pm
      Source Audio, thank you so much for your reply. Following the instructions from Behringer the Motor is connected with the regular Mackie Control (not the Classic, nor XT). Even that simple combo of 3 modules you placed the picture of above is kind of difficult for me to make, I used MIDI OX instead, that's what the readings are: Page Forward: IN: 19 Port:-- Status: 90 Data1: 2F Data2: 7F Chan: 1 Note: B 2 Event: Note On
      On release: Data2: 00; Event: Note Off
      Page Backward:
      IN: 19 Port:-- Status: 90 Data1: 2E Data2: 7F Chan: 1 Note: Bb 2 Event: Note On
      On release: Data2: 00; Event: Note Off I did merge the Roland through Motor USB Out Mode into the computer, the Motor sends the notes on MIDI 1, the Roland music notes on MIDI 2, and Roland in MIDI controller mode on MIDI 16.
    • Jun 22 2020 | 6:43 am
      This way you can't get what you want. Because it is not any page number, but just go up or go down. by the way here is info about standard mackie protocol
      You have to find out how Live and motor exchange information about the group selected. here are some questions: State is initial - nothing sent between motor and live 1 if you move fader on track 16 in Live by hand, does motor auto adjust to page 2 and moves fader 8 ? and then if you move slider 1 on motor it controls track 9 ? or not ? --------- If it auto adjust, then Live tells motor that last fader used was on "page 2" then you have chance to get this work. Otherwise, I would suggest to use one of 8 buttons on the motor to switch the clips. ---- next question is if you step fader bank on motor to page that does not exist ibn live session (over the track count) what happens ?
    • Jun 23 2020 | 12:52 am
      Source Audio, thank you so much for your reply. The questions you asked are such a logical questions that will really clarify the way the Motor and the Live work together. 1. If I move any slider in Live that is not on the page physically chosen in Motor then nothing happens. I have to press once the Next Page button in order to make the 8th slider in Motor move by moving the 16th slider in Live. And, of course, after advancing to the 2nd page on Motor the 1st slider moves the 9th in Live. 2. If I step on the page on Motor to a page that does not exist in Live then nothing happens.
      Basically, when I create a 9th track on Live the 8th track on Motor becomes the 9th, the 7th becomes the 8th, e.t.c. One more detail: in MC mode Motor's buttons change a little: the Fader Bank buttons do not work anymore, but instead the Encoder Bank buttons 17 and 25 are becoming Page Up and Page Down for the slider banks.
    • Jun 23 2020 | 10:26 am
      That makes it clear. Live knows that maximum page has been reached and does not step up. It stops sending data to motor, but on the other hand, it still sends sysex strings to motor if one repeatedly steps down, even if first page was reached. In the meantime I set test patch in max 8 standalone (nothing to do with Live) and set mackie protocol communication with Live to see what's going on. When a page changes from motor, Live sends all fader values from the new page out, (as pitch bend) and all other ones using appropriate notes CCs, etc in addition not documented aftertouch messages which get sent on midi ch 1 and represent number of tracks in the page. 0 8 16 32 48 64 96 112 for a full 8 tracks page. ----- As next a number of sysex string gets sent containing a list of tracks 0 - 7 and two 64 byte long sysex strings which I did not bother to analyse. ------ At the end it becomes clear that there is no "Page Number" that can be used to offset the Clip-Select Buttons. Even more stupid is the fact that Live does not have volume faders for midi tracks, which I'd better not comment too much because I don't want to go nuts again. Even a freeware 30 years midi sequencers have that ... Means that if one has mixed Audio and MIDI tracks in a page faders that would belong to a midi track get ignored... ------- Even worse : ALL MIDI data reserved for Mackie protocol get filtered and disabled for other receivers So you can't receive fader bank change notes A#1 and B1 in Scene Clip Launcher to set offset. shitty software --------------- The only way I might imagine is to select a track using Roland-Motor and capture selected track ID in Clip Select plugin. Note numbers are 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 velocity 127 Sending one of the notes from motor on midi channel 1 would select one of 8 tracks in selected fader bank. That info can trigger the clip. Only shit again is that one can't repeatedly trigger same track to start or stop the clip. Only when selected track changes. I hope you understand that. Maybe that could be hacked to allow reselecting same track, but I have to dive a bit into python scripts and see if it would be safe because it might cause other values to resync, making a lot of strain on midi. ------ It would be best if one would remove ALL parameters that you don't need and can't use on Motor which does not have full Mackie arsenal of controls from Mackie protocol, that would make it easier to edit. One could make a custom Control Surface ..... As next I want EXACT midi routing of roland pedal, motor keyboard and Live. I know Mackie Protocol and need no details about that, but want to know every detail about what else Motor keyboard sends including all notes, controllers, buttons, midi channels etc Same for Roland Pedal. And at the end do they now all send to Live through same midi device and on which midi channels. ------- Than I could try to do something about it. ------- Last question - would be now logical to reduce number of buttons to 8 to match tracks in one fader bank ? And if yes what functions could buttons 9 & 10 on roland do ?
    • Jun 23 2020 | 2:01 pm
      This could be your solution : 1- Using Scene Clip Launch Plugin You must be able to send 2 layers of midi messages to Live, Mackie control, and messages on different midi channel that can be routed to Clip Select Plugin. The reason : Mackie notes 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 with velocity 127 ( or also 0 - it gets ignored ) on midi channel 1 select Tracks 1 - 8 in selected Fader Group. Track select = trigger the Clip. Because track can't be selected twice, on needs to send some different message to retrigger the unchanged track. That messages MUST be on different midi channel than Mackie. to scroll the scenes midi messages also must be sent on different midi channel than Mackie. New Clip Trigger plugin would - scroll the scenes - monitor selected Track and retrigger it if needed ---------- 2- without Scene Clip Launch Plugin Mackie has dedicated note to trigger selected track : note 100 with velocity 127. That would be alternative - to have that note on the Motor as a button and retrigger the selected track. Mackie has notes 96 & 97 for scene scrolling but with stop on top and bottom, no rollover as in the plugin. If Motor can edit the buttons, one could do all without the pedal. If you want the pedal, then either pedal must be able to send 2 layers of midi messages or Motor must be able to do the merging and rerouting of messages.
    • Jun 25 2020 | 2:46 pm
      Source Audio, thank you so much for your reply. I know by now that everything you do and write is straight to the point, and if in doubt it should be re tried and re read again, so, it took me some time to get through your notes)) There should be a combination of a regular MIDI device data and the Mackie Control data received by the plugin. When Live Mackie Control sends the data to Motor about the number of tracks and what track is first at the moment it could be received by the plugin also, then if the plugin could assign its first track to that newly described set's first track it will do the task, right? The functionality of Motor and Roland is different, the Roland does everything it should, the Motor sends a request for the picture of tracks in the next (or previous) group of 8, and receives a reply advances horizontally to the set of tracks. If that could be received by the plugin then with the condition that the plugin's 1st track will coincide with the number of the 1st track sent by the Mackie it should work. Then even the Roland's tracks 9 and 10 would still work on the Lives tracks 9 and 10 while the count starts with the newly set track # 1 based on the Mackie message to Motor. Sorry if it is too naive )) The Motor in Live settings has 2 assignments: as Mackie and as a regular MIDI keyboard providing the note numbers, CC's, pitch, modulation, etc. For that regular MIDI keyboard functions it has assignable MIDI channel, while the Mackie connection has no pronounced MIDI channel number, just choose the protocol, its In and Out control and that's it.
      About the selected fader group, the Motor in MC mode loses its direct 4 pages access, and another 2 buttons (2 lower buttons of Encoder Banks) become the Bank Forward and Bank Backward buttons. So, the functionality looks like pressing the Next Bank button advances the bank frame to a set where the next 9th track becomes the 1st one. In reply it receives all the data about the 8 tracks levels (with the 1st one as a newly chosen by the new shift). So, again, if that replied from the Live Mackie data could be received (and interpreted) by the plugin then the functionality will be there. Again, sorry if it seems too naive)) Basically, there is one more scroll is needed in the plugin, just like it has the scenes (vertical) scroll, it should get the sets of 8 tracks (horizontal) scroll triggered by the MC reply from Live. In case the rollover scene advancing is not possible it is not important, because there will be no monitor in front of me and the mental picture will be pretty local based on the prepared arrangement of scenes. I don't think the Motor USB Out Merge Mode actually merges anything, I think it simply allows the 5 pin MIDI In to go through the USB to the computer, and somehow the speed of that MIDI through data is very slow, which results in some "glitchy" notes or data control (what I tried to describe once above).
    • Jun 25 2020 | 3:47 pm
      I think I shall be much shorter in my explanations
      Midi received from Mackie Protocol can NOT be received in the Plugin. If Mackie changed something in Live that plugin can react to like what I propose - let Mackie select a Track Plugin can detect which track number is selected and adjust offset for 8 Fader Track groups You need to send that 8 notes from mackie to recall 1 of 8 tracks in the group. In addition, you need to send midi to trigger the Tracks as in previous plugin. I will draw you the diagram to make it clear when I get time. ------------- Do You use that motor also as normal keyboard, playing notes etc or only to control Live ? Mackie works on MIDI CHANNEL 1
      If you were able to get roland and Motor to appear as 1 unit to live, midi channel 1 carying the Mackie protocol and any other midi channel sending midi to plugin to trigger clips than all would work. P.S. I allready have a plug ready and tested to do what I describe.
    • Jun 25 2020 | 3:58 pm
      If your devices and Live are not caopable of that simple task, could you use midiox to merge and convert midi data ?
    • Jun 25 2020 | 8:42 pm
      Source Audio, thank you so much for your reply. Yes, the Roland and the Motor are both used for control and as the music keyboards, Roland by switching between the modes, and Motor is constantly connected as both: the MC and the music keyboard (could be assigned any MIDI channel). I forgot to warn you, I'm a dummy)) How the Roland should appear to Live as 1 unit with Motor if the only thing it does is controlling the plugin (currently through ch 16)? What exactly means: Appear as 1 unit? I tried several things as I understand to try an appearance as 1 unit: 1. I called one more Mackie in the Live settings (the second, under the existing one), and assigned Motor Keyboard (not the PART 2) to it. The original MC protocol has Motor Keyboart PART 2 assigned to it (as recommended by Behringer). There are 2 Motor inputs appearing in Live, regular (for regular MIDI tasks) and Part 2. After I did this some notes stopped playing, and some others (D2) started changing the screens in Live. 2. That glitchy performance is important to avoid, so, I tried to use iConnectivity box, especially designed for MIDI and USB In's and Out's. Roland works perfectly through it, no glitches no lagging. I can call DIN 1 coming from iConnectivity in a second instance of Mackie in Live, then if all the MC data is sent on ch 1, and currently all the plugin controls come in ch 16 that could be the solution? Or somehow the signal from Roland should be split and come simultaneously on ch 1 for MC, and ch 16 for the plugin?
    • Jun 26 2020 | 7:31 am
      As first I want to know which Mackie Protocol functions You have AND USE on that motor keyboard. I don't have time to search user manuals of legacy gear, read all that through etc
      so please don't waste your time experimenting if you want this to be sorted soon. Again, you must send :
      1- Mackie notes 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 with velocity 127 on midi channel 1 to select Tracks 1 - 8 in selected Fader Group. 2- CC# or any other midi data from roland pedal like in current plugin but on different midi channel --- The notes 24 - 31 must come in into live through same midi device set as mackie control. So if Motor is not able to do so, than notes must be sent to live from another source, but must be merged with motor to be recognised as mackie device. Is that so difficult to understand ? ------ Again : Motor mackie protocol sends on midi channel 1 unchgangeable ------- Make a list looking like this : Motor sends all mackie data on CH 1 list them below ( all motor items that get sent as mackie) - - - - Motor also sends as "normal" midi keyboard ON WHICH MIDI CHANNEL ? (surely not 1 because that would collide with mackie protocol) Also if any other midi data gets sent beside notes like p bend CC#s etc Is motor able to merge incoming midi with own output ? -------------------- ROLAND : What does it send to Live ? 1 the bass pedals what data and on which midi channel ? 2 the switches what data and on which midi channel ? is roland able to merge incoming midi data with own output ? (that means if midi input can be merged with own sending data to midi output) ---------- I asked you to send me that infos days ago. I'll wait with further replies till i get the infos
    • Jun 26 2020 | 8:32 am
      Here is the drawing
    • Jun 26 2020 | 2:35 pm
      Here is the plugin to go with the explanations. Looks same as previous one, but acts differently It listens to selected track in live and adjust track offset to it. If you manage to send that 8 notes, all will work
      This is extracts from Live's functions controlled by Mackie notes
    • Jun 27 2020 | 9:53 pm
      Source Audio, thank you so much for your reply! I think there is a misunderstanding about the way Roland works, about its modes. First, the answers. 1. Connecting Motor to Live Mackie takes choosing the protocol in the drop down menu, choosing Motor Part 2 in menus In and Out, and that's it, all works. How can I find out " motor items that get sent as mackie "? 2. As "normal" midi keyboard Motor has its own protocol (not the PART 2 used with Mackie), so, even when it is on ch 1 it does not interfere with MC. Through that non PART 2 protocol "any other midi data gets sent beside notes like p bend CC#s etc". It is "able to merge incoming midi with own output", I can play notes on Motor while using p bender of another keyboard connected to MIDI In. 3. Roland in keyboard ( bass pedals ) mode sends notes currently on ch 2, could be changed to any channel. 4. Roland in MIDI Controller mode sends CC's currently on ch 16 (could be changed). 5. Yes, Roland is able to merge incoming midi data with own output. 6. On your diagram (looking great, by the way)) the Option 1: Live sends signal to Motor, I left in MC protocol only output going to Motor Part 2. MIDI Out from Motor goes to Roland In, from Roland Out to Mio XM (to convert 5 pin to USB), to computer USB. In order for Live to "hear" Motor going through Roland I should choose Din 1 in Mackie Input, right? Otherwise, if I choose Motor Part 2 it will communicate through the same USB wire In and Out with Mackie, not using the Motor going through the Roland loop, right? So, when I use the Din 1 as the input to Mackie and Motor as output the Live starts doing weird things like jumping between modes by it self, etc. Option 3: By Roland going through as is you mean the Roland's music notes part? And modified should be the MIDI controller mode, from the current 24 to 31 CC's to 24 to 31 notes, right? So, the new version of the plugin is controlled by notes, not by CC's? Just to clarify: Roland has switches on top that convert its music 13 keys (bass pedal) into 13 CC MIDI controller buttons (5th button from left), or back to the regular music 13 keys (bass pedal) mode (1st button). So, if we have to convert CC's into notes means that CC's can't control the new version of the plugin, right? Option 2: Again, just as described above, all the control on the plugin so far was done by pressing the bass pedal 13 keys, which in the mode of the MIDI controller get silent and act as the controller buttons. If there is no misunderstanding, and Roland somehow MUST perform in its 2 modes simultaneously, which I don't think it can, then how exactly can I send 127 velocity from it? Because there are only 2 velocity modes: the full 0 to 127, and none: constant 64 only. Thank you for making the new version of the plugin. Somehow, it does not react to any buttons the previous versions were reacting to.
    • Jun 28 2020 | 8:38 am
      I have a long answer to all the questions, but will post the short one first.
      To do what you want, Scene Clip Plugin needs double trigger for each button
      1 - notes 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 on midi ch. 1 coming from Mackie protocol 2- CC#s 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 84 85 86 coming from Roland. the CC#s can be reprogrammed to something else if needed. ------- In fact new plugin will work same as previous one if it does not receive mackie notes, only it won't be able to adapt to selected Fader Groups and would allways trigger tracks 0 - 9 ------- With all the limitations of Motor and Roland and also Live and finaly knowing more about your midi setup I see another option : download and install loopmidi Use loopmidi to create virtual port
      I would rename it to TrackSelect to avoid any confusion.
      Start Live and add that TrackSelect Port as Mackie Control input Only as input and also enable it as track output.
      This is settings for TrackSelect Port only. Rest of your setup - leave unchanged. I will make you new Plugin that will convert Roland's CC#s into that 8 Notes and send them out to TrackSelect. which acts as Mackie Control input. Input to plugin should be Roland and output TrackSelect. I have tested that and it works. -------- I will upload new plugin in short time
    • Jun 28 2020 | 9:36 am
      that's it
      Roland Buttons 9 and 10 will trigger the tracks 9 and 10 from selected track offset bank, but can not be used to change the track bank. Only 1 - 8 can do so
    • Jun 29 2020 | 6:33 pm
      Source Audio, thank you so much for your reply! As soon as a new 9th track is created the 1st (and the other) pedal starts controlling that track. It is very exciting to see! Somehow, after pressing the Motor's buttons Fader Encoders Down (or Up) it does not move anywhere, it always stays with the highest number of the fader banks.
    • Jun 30 2020 | 7:23 am
      I don't understand the problem. To clarify : motor fader select bank buttons set the active fader group Tracks 1-8, 9-16, 17-24 etc That are notes 46 and 47 when one group is active, pressing any roland button, makes plugin select one track in that group. Nothing else I don't have any mackie hardware unit, but set one emulator in max to send the expected mackie values to live for testing.
    • Jun 30 2020 | 8:16 am
    • Jul 01 2020 | 10:01 am
      Perfect! The video shows that the plugin is 100% functional. I guess, some minor adjustment will do. These are the couple of reasons I can think of: How did we assign the Forward/Backward banks buttons to 46 and 47, maybe in the the real Motor it is not connected yet? As soon as the 9th track is created the Roland's 1st jumps there automatically, is it constantly scanning for a highest track number?
    • Jul 01 2020 | 11:23 am
      notes 46 and 47 are fixed Mackie Protocol ones for selecting Fader Bank. You also stated that too, using HEX values and note names You can read all Note assignments in that constants file I uploaded in one of the previous posts. By the way I am not using original Live bundled Mackie protocol scripts, which are not readable as plain text. I use instead source files from github, but that should work the same. If you want I can upload zipped file with that. -------- I will repeat again what new plugin does : it monitors which track in Live is highlited (selected) and adjusts it's button numbers to groups of 8 tracks to which currently selected track belongs. To select a track from mackie device one needs to send notes 24 - 31. Now what happens is that when plugin receives CC#s from roland it also sends that notes to Loop Midi, which again turns that notes back to Live acting as mackie protocol.
    • Jul 02 2020 | 3:00 am
      Source Audio, the functionality described and shown in the video is 100% accurate. I don't have the same 46, 47 as visible numbers in my version of the plugin, but I am sure if I did it would work the same as on your video. I am trying to eliminate possible problems in order to find the connected hardware miscommunication. This is the only little adjustment left to make it all work. Roland comes out of the merged Motor USB and is expected to act as a part of Mackie (if I'm not mistaking). For that we have 2 Mackie Control connections in Live: Motor PART 2 In and Out, and the TrackSelect In only (non Mackie TrackSelect Out is also On).. In actuality when I switch the Mackie TrackSelect In off nothing changes, but when I switch off the Motor Keyboard (NOT the Part 2 that is connected to Mackie, but the Motor music keyboard) all the clip launching by Roland stops. Which makes me think that even though it sends CC's, but after merging it is seen as part of Motor music keyboard. The same goes for LoopMIDI, weather this application is Open or Closed the track launching by Roland is not affected. By the way, I don't exactly understand how did we manage to send the data to the LoopMIDI, duplicating Roland coming from Motor, but I'm sure we are doing it right. Again, at this point the 1st launching track automatically jumps to the 9th, 17th, etc., as soon as they are created, and does not come back when the bank selection buttons pressed.
    • Jul 02 2020 | 6:20 am
      Leave Motor and Roland connected as they were. Separately. Motor as mackie and normal port, Roland as separate midi device. Than make loopmidi connection as I described. insert plugin into empty midi track. set midi Input from Roland and select midi channel on which it sends CC#s, set thack output to loopmidi "TrackSelect", turn monitor on. That's it.