Need a plugin that works like a Chosen Scene Clip Launcher
At first the keyboard was unabled, then it got available and usable. Now it is unavailable (red) again. I guess I was trying different apps start sequences before...
Source Audio, the MidiFix3 works perfectly!! The Motor keyboard goes through it like a charm! Thank you SO much!
The MCfromLive still doesn't work. I think there is some very minor issue, like misspelling (as you wrote once yourself), i.e. "(Part 2)" is spelled with parenthesis, or something like that. You are a very professional programmer and I'm sure everything is done perfectly, and we will find that misspelling.
Being so close now, and with so much effort from both sides that would be pity to drop it right at the end. Let's just take a break, and whenever you have a moment to look at it again just write here and I'll do any tests needed.
The Live restarting with the MidiFix2 works on Motor Keyboard (red) input only at a certain moment and then after computer reboot it stops, but we don't need it, the MidiFix3 is Perfect!!
The MCtoLive follows the banks switching perfectly: the sliders control the channels corresponding to a chosen bank.
After the plugin was finished, adding a "small" feature with the banks turned out to be pretty challenging, and it is almost done. So, whenever you'll think of something please let me know and I'll try it right away.
Again, thank you SO much!
On July 20th you wrote:
The sequence must be :
1 All hardware connected
2 Virtual Ports created
3 MidiFix starts
4 Live starts
which makes perfect sense, and this is the way I am doing it.
Switching MC Output to Motor Part 2 (from MCfromLive) made the track line MC Output (Motor Part 2) red, meaning unaccessable, unavailable, and the the Motor sliders are not controlled by the Live GUI. It stays red until I turn the MidiFix3 off, then that line turns regular color.
So, when I turn the Live on first with the settings MC Out to Motor Part 2, and AFTER that launch the MidiFix3 everything works the way expected! The launcher follows the pages, MC works both ways, and so on...
Strange..., but works!
There are couple of funny things happening if the launcher stays on any page but 1st, and I add more tracks. Most likely it will launch and highlight different tracks, but it is pretty easily healed by going to the 1st page.
The scene scroller and the horizontal launcher doesn't work on the Launcher5, and the latest Launcher that it works on does not have the sliders pages function. I am sure there is some simple disconnection.
This is the latest working launcher with scroll and full line but no pages:
This is the latest Launcher with pages but without the scroller and the full line launcher:
I copied the MidiFix2.maxpat text to the notepad and changed the extension to maxpat. Could it be a part of the plugin now (even though MidiFix3 is used now)? The less apps to start is a live setting the better))
I didn't mean to emphasize the Motor (Part 2) name, I just gave an example that something very minor is conflicting, like syntax error, or something))
Source Audio, thank you SO much for your reply!
On July 18 you wrote: " Here is the patch if you want to look inside ", and posted Midifix2.maxpat.
Then you wrote: " Standalone is on the way".
To me it sounded like the first file was a part of something that opens in Max For Live, and the second one was a version of the same file but in standalone version. I am sorry about not understanding that there were completely different programs.
The Midifix2 was posted here with the .maxpat extension, so, it was opening only as a text file, so, in order for me to save it I had to save the text in the notepad app (with the extension .txt), and then change the extension to .maxpat. I was simply asking you if it would work this way (if it is not in ASCII, or some other format that you can not simply change the extension).
I was also wondering what is that Midifix2.maxpat file for, where and how it could be used.
The results of the test in Max as follows:
2, "MIDIOUT2 (MOTÖR61 Keyboard)";
1, "MIDIIN2 (MOTÖR61 Keyboard)";
This is the the file saved from the MOTOR Ports file:
Yeah, it should be rared or zipped like MotorPorts, the MidiFix2.maxpat was not, that's why I had to deal with renaming extension.
The "music" was actually pretty funny, it was some clusters with upper and lower keys at the same time, sounded like some horror movie stuff...))
I agree, let's go with the 1st option, it seems like like a cleaner version.
3 out of 4 Motors in repairs already)) Each one of them have had 1 (one!) key that was questionably responding in a lower velocity, so, I can check only with a 61 right now.
The MC works perfectly!! Thank you SO much!
Just couple of questions:
1. The Motor keyboard in Live Configuration stays red until I close the MidiFix, then I can activate the Keyboard Track On, and start MidiFix again, just like the old version with activating Motor Part 2 for MC Out.
2. What the Store Midi Configuration button should do, store the chosen values permanently?
Now it works. Thank you so much!
But looking at the choice of options you gave me on Jul 22, the first option was with the independently connected MIDI instruments. How the MidiFix "monopolized" all the MIDI inputs, so, if any MIDI source is connected it wont let it communicate with Live unless the MidiFix started after the Ableton? The same goes for the wireless Alesis Vortex.
When you gave me the choice of 2 options I thought that we neutralized the MC communication within itself, and all the other connections wont be affected, but it seems not to be the case. Is it because of the Roland is involved in MC controlling and therefor every port should have the MidiFix "permission" to get to Ableton?
And again, it is not really blocking all the unspecified MIDI ports, if the MidiFix started after Ableton then it co exist with any other enabled ports. Is it doing something "aggressive" when it starts? I am just trying to understand the difference in behavior depending on the start sequence.
Yes, this is the mystery. If everything is launched in a logical manner: MidiFix first and then Live, the MIDI devices (ports, keyboards) are getting red if the track button is turned On. As soon as the MidiFix is turned off the ports could be switched on and off with no problems, and then turning the MidiFix back on does not affect the previously turned on ports. Everything is working.
Strange, huh?
But there should be some logic, and I don't know what it could be.
With the MC output it was logical that it simply does not call the right part of the Motor, because you sounded so sure that it should work that I understood that the programming part is there and it is simply "misspelled" as I called it, or it is NAMED differently as it turned out to be. Everything is logical. But in this case I don't know what to think accept that somehow the MidiFix works AROUND the ports that are already connected when it is being launched. I know that my "around" will sound to you as stupid as "misspelled")) but, you know..., this is the best I can come up with))
If there are any tests I could do please let me know.
BTW, I ran the MotorPorts test to see the exact name for the Vortex and it showed "Vortex Wireless 2".
This is my full setup for now, I do not plan to add any additional instruments, but as you mentioned the 1st option with the instruments connected directly to Live would be preferred, it seems cleaner and more stable.
Again, I'll be happy to do any tests, just let me know.
Thank you very much.
It's hard to say, I haven't tried it in a real performance yet.
Could we just add "Vortex Wireless 2" as one more instrument, and it will do for now. This way I could feel a little more safe that these 2 apps wont have a conflict in the middle of a performance))
You're right, it is important to specify a device.
I wrote that line above because among the choice of the sources the Vortex was already showing, so, I assumed that the MidiFix treats the sources the same way. When I was choosing the Vortex instead of the Motor Keyboard the MIDI indicator in Live was blinking, but only now I realized that actual pressing the keys was doing that weird thing with the screens changes, etc. Like Live is listening to Vortext not only in a musical, but in some system way, too.
I am just trying to notice some things that might describe the picture better. Not always in the right way. Sorry))
BTW, I am still trying to activate that Store Midi Configuration recording button. How should I assign a .txt file for it, or something? The button is not working yet, but in a live setting it would be a perfect feature to have, this way I could skip choosing all the inputs every time I turn it on.
Mackie protocol uses midi channel 1
Vortex will have to use one midi channel which is completely free.
not 1 (used by Mackie) not 2 or 16 /used by roland,
and not whatever MOTOR keyboard part is using.
That has to be done on device itself.
In Live use allways apropriate channel on track input.
---------
Store Midi Configuration writes the file itself
On next App launch it reads it - NOT THE BUTTON, App itself .
So clicking on the button rewrites that file with current selected menu items.
File is named Port-Prefs.txt and is stored in settings folder of Midifix-2
and Midifix-3.
Max Standalone apps create folders to store settings and temporary files etc in this path :
Users/User/AppData/Roaming/Cycling '74/Name Of the Standalone/Settings/
in your case
Users/your folder/AppData/Roaming/Cycling '74/MidiFix-2/Settings/
Users/your folder/AppData/Roaming/Cycling '74/MidiFix-3/Settings/
----------
AppData folder is usually hidden from user's view
Great!! Just perfect!! Thank you SO much!!
You mentioned that MCtoLive should be turned on as a track only (besides the MC Control Surface), but I need to use the Vortex buttons as some CC's in Live, so, I turned the Remote on, too, so far no conflicts of any kind. Do you think it will not get into any problems?
The Port-Prefs.txt perfectly stores the chosen settings. When I change them in MidiFix3 and look at the file a new choice is showing, but on restart the actual inputs 1 and 5 show the right instruments (UMC and Vortex), but # 2 and # 3 shows LoopBe, and # 4 shows Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth, as if it does not read back its own stored data.
I thought that it is just showing them but actual instruments are as stored in Port-Prefs.txt but the MC did not work. The permissions on Port-Prefs.txt seem to be not restricted.
MidiFix2 stores only the first instrument, (UMC).
By a strange coincidance the Motor inputs are not recalling.
I am sure you did everything perfectly, and looking at both latest MidiFix'es makes me think that whatever has something to do with Motor instrument stored in a MidiFix not being recalled on restart, might hint on how MidiFix is going around the Live settings if it is started after it.
I am still puzzled by this sequence of apps start importance))
As you can see I deleted all old, non relevant posts here.
This discussion took so long.
Maybe you can do the same and at the end post some conclusions
that could be usefull to somene else facing similar problems.
---------
I have fixed that minor mistake in Clip-Scene-MidiFix.amxd
it only produced some errors in Max console, otherwise functions remained absolutely the same
Same thing for original plugin (only Roland to Scene Scroll / Clip launch)
Source Audio, absolutely! I'll be happy to write a conclusion on the great work you've done with highlighting all the steps, so, others will see all the advantages.
Now only 2 versions available at this threat but I keep them all (just in case))
I know that on your side all the features (including the scenes and all horizontal clips launcher) work, but on my side all the versions we've had before incorporating the pages have these features, and as soon as we started incorporating pages they disappeared.
I know that it's hard to believe when on your side it all works, so, if you'd like me to I can try to place everything in one frame and shoot a video that shows it. Please let me know.
The one that has those features (pre pages version) with choosing higher pages highlights the correct clips but the clips are launched in the 1st page only. Which make sense, it's a pre pages version.
This is that pre pages version with all features working:
Source Audio, please ignore the previous message! I simply did not assign the right CC's inside the plugin. I am so embarrassed!)) Sorry!))
First and foremost: Source Audio did absolutely wonderful job, it's one of those exceptional cases when you think of a feature and understand that it would be great to have it but probably impossible to make, and Source Audio finds a way to do it even when it takes something beyond just a plugin or an originally planned concept. A truly marvelous experience. Source Audio, thank you SO much!!
The objective was to try to do a live performance with a DAW (Ableton Live) but without having a computer screen. So, Live has clips organized in tracks and with a MIDI controller launching and stopping those clips will allow to develop a real time musical texture by adding, removing and replacing patterns (clips) during a live performance, just like in some Acid but in a much more advanced level.
On top of that adding a feature of moving up and down the clips lines will make it much more sophisticated because this way the number of combinations increases exponentially.
On top of that there is a button that launches all the clips in any horizontal line, which gives it even more creative options.
In a live performance setup the levels of every channel should be controlled independently. To save space and minimize the equipment, a keyboard with 9 motorized sliders is used, which is important because it gives a visual reference to a stored in a song mixing picture, and by adjusting a slider one wont experience a sudden jump in a level as other MIDI keyboards with non motorized sliders do.
This keyboard has only 8 channel sliders and 1 master, but when more than 8 channels used a new page is automatically created. The pages could be accessed by 2 special buttons on the keyboard.
But the original MIDI device (a foot keyboard) has only 13 keys, and only 10 of them are actually used for launching the clips, so, a great feature was developed of that clip launching device following the pages currently called on the keyboard with motorized sliders. This way the sliders and the keys on the launcher are synchronized to be on the same page (group of 8 sliders/tracks).
Developing this "extra" feature involved a deep diving into the Mackie Control protocol, which was necessary to hack to place the clip launcher right inside of it.
And (surprise!) Mac and Win structured very differently, so, at certain point the entire Mackie Control combination with the clip launcher had to be re developed.
The trick is that even though a DAW is being used, with some sufficiently prepared musical material the motorized sliders, onboard transporter and the clip launcher could make it a one live system without clicking a mouse and looking at a computer screen.
The development of this plugin started with a pretty vague idea and crystallized into a very exciting module with a pretty interesting concept. All the "wishful thinking" was 100% fulfilled by Source Audio.
Source Audio, you're the best!!))
Source Audio, on June the 8th I asked you how could the time hold for the scene scroll be increased, you replied and I perfectly adjusted it on the old version, but it looks like some of your replies are gone)) Could you please remind me where can I increase the scenes scroll buttons holding time? Thank you!
I removed all old posts.
Will also remove the rest, and if you want at the end post all relevant infos
or send it by mail to you.
This is location of scene scroller
If I think that you have no visual feedback on the stage
I would actually remove auto scroll and also disable
counter looping, so that it stops at top or bottom.
You could modify it like this :
I deleted old post because there was so much try and error correspondence
going back and forth, expired download links etc
nobody can benefit form that being here.
You can delete whatever you want, even the whole thread.
If you want to keep it, only reason would be to post some short
facts, infos that could maybe help someone, and trash the rest.
Source Audio, maybe I am connecting something in a wrong way, but the Motor's pitch bend is not getting through to a Live track.
Even the indicators in Live shows that it receives some data by flashing the light to the right of the word Key, but not at the regular place: the very right top indicator.
The modulation wheel works with no problem, and when configured directly without the MidiFix the right top light flashes, and the pitch shift function works.
The same goes for Vortex, not only the Motor.
Both MidiFix 2 and 3 versions have no midi filter,
thay simply route midiin to midiout from Roland, Motor keyboard + Mackie
and Vortex to Midi Port MCtoLive.
You can use Max without Live or any other software to monitor input coming from MCtoLive.
As I remember you have midi ox which can do so.
I hope you remember the midi channel rules ,
to avoid stealing of data because of Mackie protocol.
If it is Internal Live problem, I can't help you with that.
I don't remember if I sent you patches used to build
both apps.
Here they are :
Source Audio, thank you SO much for your reply!
I am not sure what to look at in the Midi OX, so far I can see the difference in the 2nd column "IN": going through MidiFix it shows 7, coming directly from Motor shows 2.
Port and Note: --
Status: E2
Chan: 3
Event: Pitch Bend
So, not exactly sure what it is, but seems like IN is the problem.
Now, the output window adds port value: 3 for Motor direct, and 8 for MCtoLive, but when I measure for MCtoLove loopMidi gives an error message "Feedback Detected In MCtoLive" and mutes MCtoLive port.
Of course, the Time Stamp and Data 1 and 2 are working for In and Out, but I don't think there is a question about it.
Found your P.S. after I posted my reply. Let me try it on channels 9 to 16.
Yep, it works!))
I didn't know about the 2 to 8 restrictions, now I do))
Actually, somehow 9 doesn't work neither, but 10, 11 do.
Thank you SO much!!
BTW, do you know anything about BlueTooth codes? I have some Zoom drum machine/sampler that looks so cool! But its widely advertised BlueTooth capability is made only for Mac. I contacted them and they confirmed that only for Mac (Discrimination!!))
Do you think there is anything could be done to emulate it to Windows?
It is Zoom ARQ 96. It has a great sound and options, but also it looks so good because of its lights that go around it with the sounds))
It comes with the base, but the circle it self has a built in BlueTooth sender which works with Mac, but does not work with windows.
The Zoom said that they will look into possibility of making Windows interface, but they never got back with me on that.
As you can see on the ARQ manual located at
https://zoomcorp.com/media/documents/E_AR-96v2_0_0_qzSkBVL.pdf
on the page 126 it says:
Using Bluetooth LE, you can connect the Ring Controller directly to a Mac or iOS device, and use it as a MIDI controller.
Strange, huh?
How is it different for Windows?
Source Audio, you are incredible!)) You know everything!
Before I installed this app the built in BT connection page was showing the ARQ as an available for connection, but after a few seconds trying it was saying "Try connecting your device again later".
After I installed the Korg BLE MIDI I tried to start the setups for 32 and 64, but both of them were saying: No Device Is Plugged In. Does it mean that my built in BT is not compatible and it won't be even recognized by the app, so, I must get one of the recommended dongles?
I mean, is it even attempting to recognize the built in BT?
Source Audio, thank you so much for your reply!
I did go through all your notes (of course), and I read a lot of posts from different users.
BLE compatible; didn't update Windows to the May version (everything must work); installed and re installed both apps (Midiberry and the Korg BLE, and just the Korg Midi uninstallation has pretty specific functions), tried different configurations.
Knowing how always straight to the point you are, any of your note you write in 2 mins I study and retry for 20 hours)))
I did not get a dongle yet, but that's what I think:
the apps are great, the way they are described they should do the job, but what I see in the others posts is that they have always had the "physical" BT connection which then was not interpreted into an appropriate signal to work with a DAW. I can't pair the device. The ring communicates with the base through its own BT connection, but to use just the ring as a cool looking controller it should be paired to the computer, before which it should be set to the settings mode and the Mac (iOS) button should be pressed.
I do it, I do it partially, I do it differently..., the result is the same, it starts pairing and after a while says "Try again later".
So, the computer's BT sees the device, (even a phone sees it)), but the pairing it self is not happening.
Is there any proprietary Mac BT connection, that works only on Mac? Shouldn't be, right? A headphones, speakers, remotes, etc. work the same way for Mac and PC.
Please let me know if I misunderstood anything (I hope I did)), and I should do it differently in any way.
You're right, it could be connected through the base, but I thought that since the controller has direct BT connection it would be cool to avoid the base.
I did disconnect the controller from the base, the same result.
Some computers have BT 4, some others BT 5, but BT 5 is backward compatible.
When connecting the controller directly to a computer, the Mac mode should be chosen, at least it sounds like Mac has some differences in BT. If so, then I was wondering if there is any way to emulate those Mac BT settings in a Win.
Source Audio, can the Motor be eliminated altogether and Roland moving through the pages (8 tracks each) by pressing MIDI mapped buttons on another controller (i.e. Vortex), where each button will move the Roland to a specific button (1/8, 9/16, 17/24, etc.)
It seems like pretty much what we already have, but going through the pages not Forward and Backward, but to a specified by MIDI mapping page, right?
You're exactly right, with this setup there will be no more need to use Mackie Protocol.
Vortex can have up to 25 presets, with each preset all the sliders and pads can have completely different MIDI mapping. Each preset's 8 sliders could be assigned to a next track group, so, switching the presets back and forth will have the same function as the Motors pages scrolling.
Since we got the Roland synchronized with motor's pages scrolling I thought that it should be easy to switch this functionality to the Vortex, but I forgot that Motor uses MC, which Vortex doesn't have, that's why your " That should work " sound so great!)
With this setup we have exactly 2 MIDI inputs: Roland and Vortex, and they both go directly to Ableton.
Vortex's software allows to change its pads to any possible kind of any CC number: Toggle with On and Of adjustable values, Momentary with Press and Release adjustable values, and Program Change with LSB and MSB adjustable values.
A general CC list shows that 102 through 119 are undefined, so, we can use any of them. Will we need just 2 (forward and backward) or each tracks group will need its own separate button to be mapped?
I think the channel we used before for Roland was 16, but it would be great to be able to change it later.
There is one more thing: Vortex has + and - to scroll through its 25 presets, that would be just perfect to sync it with Roland, but these 2 buttons sending Pitchbend MIDI signals (both of them), and they are not even assignable in the Vortext software, so, they can't be used, right?
I will try to my best ability to draw a diagram in Photoshop, but what exact infos should be included?
Source Audio, thank you SO much for your reply!!
Let's do the purple 0 to 10 numbers CC's 102 through 112.
Both devices and the Live track will be on the same MIDI channel, I think it will merge them. If MIDI channels do not matter then I use CC 102 through 112 only for this.
Perfect! Absolutely perfect!!
Source Audio, you are a genius, Thank You SO much!!
AND for this setup even MidiFix is not needed anymore. It was combining Motor for MC, which is not in use with this setup.
Just 1 question: I am still figuring out the best use for all the buttons, just in case if I'd run out of them would it be hard to make a Forward/Backward scroll out of 2 buttons, going through the track groups of 8?
Sours Audio, thank you SO much!! It Works!
The only interesting thing is that it goes through the cycle of 6: if there are only 2 pages in use it will go through them, and then there are 4 "empty" ones, then back to the 1st. If there are 7 pages it will go through the first 6, and then go back to the 1st.
No matter how long I was staring at it I couldn't figure out where this 6 is coming from))
Yep!! Now it works and recognizes the number of 8 track sets!!
Source Audio, Thank You SO much!!
There is 1 liiitle thing, it was with both versions, but I was not sure if maybe I am doing something wrong: when the plugin is just open and any one of the buttons is pressed for the first time then nothing happens (no shifts in 8 track pages), when ANY one of 2 buttons pressed for the 2nd time everything starts working from that point on.
I wouldn't be a too big of a deal, but as you know I don't have a monitor in front of me, so, it is a little confusing.
Perfect!!!
Source Audio, Thank you SO much!!!)))
Source Audio, do you think it will be easy to do the Clip Solo play synchronization? When a clip plays the thrack's Solo mode is On, when it stops the Solo mode is Off.
Source Audio , thank you so much for your reply!
I think the first concept (detection of a playing clip in the track) is simpler and more reliable than a universal monitor.
The general transport is pretty independent: if during a play the Transport Stop button is pressed the music will stop but the played clip's button will stay On.
try this
It should in theory work... I have no way to test it.
But while reading LOM to see what could report track playing status
I realised that this would work only in midi tracks,
one would have to make one for audio tracks as well.
I still think that master observer of all tracks would be better,
it depends a bit on how fast you need solo status updated, because scanning all tracks
to obtain track ID's , then scanning all tracks for status, combining that with
track ID to form track - solo status ... would take time and cpu cycles
Source Audio, seriously!!! How's that possible?? So quick and easy, and SO perfect!!
You are exceptional!
I thought it was my crazy imagination that will be impossible to fulfill ever, and you did it instantly!
Thank you SO much!!!
Let's do a live performer's DAW! We'll see what features people miss in other programs, will raise crowdfunding funds, and it will be a super program that everybody will love!! Seriously!!
AND without even having the program!!
Bach wrote his Well Tempered Clavier without a keyboard, just sitting by his desk, I thought he was the only genius like that, well..., you are just like him!))
Of course!))
But if you'd ever want to develop a new product please let me know, I'll be happy to give some user's input.
Hey Source Audio, how you doing?!))
I have a quick question: I decided to go with the original multi button version of Clip-Scene-LB, but I can't figure out where is the settings for the Up and Down the Scene buttons press length. For a live performance I need it to be slow (1 sec), otherwise they easily run a few scenes up or down with one push.
Thank you!!
hi, all fine here, wish same to you .
speed of scene up/down scroller is set in patcher
sceneSel
inside you see metro object set to 250 ms interval
change it to higher value.
If you use Mac, you can simply open Clip-Scene-LB.amxd
using TextEdit.app, search for metro 250,
it will return only 1 item, than replace 250 with max 999
that because one has to keep original code length,
because of primitive checksum included in amxd and mxf files.
that's my lazy - prefered way of modifying code, without need to load, unlock, store, build etc
on windows files get unusable if one uses notepad or wordpad, they ruin encoding.
actually same question and answer allready exist in this thread
Jul 26 2020 | 11:57 am
maybe you should delete all old and not needed posts, to be able to find infos easier
Source Audio, I tried the Cliptrack Solo in a real project, works like a charm!! Thank you SO much!!))
There is a strange thing that when it is switched On no sound is getting through, but when it is applied to the track but switched Off it works perfectly!!
And somehow it starts and ends about 1/16 note too late, even though it is waiting to start playing according to the Global Quantize. I found a workaround, applied to the Clip Launch 0.3.3 instead of a full bar, but still strange that it is acting so "analogue".
Are you inserting this into audio track ?
that does not work, only for midi tracks,
because it is midi device and has no audio in or out.
I mentioned that when sending this device.
I thought that one can't insert midi device into audio track ?
--------
Execution of live functions using this kind of stuff
was allways reported as problematic.
Maybe the quantisation and status of track playing status
are geting reported too late for the solo thingy to react.
That's exactly what it feels like (to my surprise). I thought that this level of calculations should be very basic for a computer, but maybe the whole sound engine has some latency, right?
I use it on a MIDI track with an Instrument pack where every instrument is a fill sample that is being triggered according to the velocity the key was hit with. This way I have 128 fills that are practically always different.
I have no idea, really.
All I know is that this plug waits till live.observer reports play status change
to toggle solo mode.
And set solo status message must be defered, otherwise live would not execute it,
but print some errors about this and that.
I don't know enough about live to offer a better solution.